[Solved] Calc crashes on copy/paste

[orionstar]

Same problem as Bob Brines (in Calc crashes on copy/paste). None of the solutions here or at viewtopic.php?t=108849 work for me. Also saw this problem with scalc in OO 4.1.12 . 4.1.13 did not solve and neither did a repair install of 4.1.13 . Is changing to LibreOffice the only solution?

Edit: Split from [Solved] Calc crashes on copy/paste. Hagar, Moderator.

[RoryOF]

If the removal of a printer driver cured the problem in one specific case, this suggests that the problem may be caused by interference from some other application installed on the computer. To ascertain this, start Windows in Safe Mode; while Windows is running in that mode, run OpenOffice and see if the problem occurs. If not, then detective work is needed to find which program or driver that runs in Windows normal mode is causing the problem. Immediate candidates are anti-virus, anti-ransomeware or anti-malware programs, but there are others, including some Windows updated components.

[orionstar]

swriter's copy function works correctly in normal or safe mode. scalc's copy function works correctly only in Safe Mode. It is something specific to the scalc copy. Tried removing some printers, turning off Skype, suspending anti-virus. Does this Windows error log offer any other clues?

Source OpenOffice 4.1.13 Summary
Stopped responding and was closed
Date ‎08-‎Jan-‎23 01:10
Status Report sent

Description
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.
Faulting Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenOffice 4\program\soffice.bin

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: soffice.bin
Application Version: 4.1.9810.500
Application Timestamp: 62bf8782
Hang Signature: f079
Hang Type: 134218245
OS Version: 10.0.22621.2.0.0.768.101
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: f079ee4827b509bfcd430f7c59c2ce57
Additional Hang Signature 2: 0e88
Additional Hang Signature 3: 0e888f6312b0f485342ce3175f8875ae
Additional Hang Signature 4: f079
Additional Hang Signature 5: f079ee4827b509bfcd430f7c59c2ce57
Additional Hang Signature 6: 0e88
Additional Hang Signature 7: 0e888f6312b0f485342ce3175f8875ae

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: 5d936ae45be0d36a80fee2ef45b69c0d (1224665665986010125)

[us71na]

I have OpenOffice 4.1.13, and I cannot copy and paste any cells. The file I am working with is quite small 22KB and was recently created. I opened a brand new calc document and as soon as I highlight more than a single cell and hit control C or use the copy command from the edit toolbar, Open Office calc locks up and I have to close the program. I can copy and paste a single cell as often as I want. I have not installed any new programs and my OpenOffice 4.1.13 says it is up to date. My computer is running Windows 11 which is also up to date. None of the above has solved the problem. Copy and paste still works in Open Office Writer.

[Hagar Delest]

Sadly, you may end up switching to LibreOffice.

[orionstar]

Can one install only the spreadsheet part of LO and remove the scalc of OO?

[Hagar Delest]

Quite tricky I guess. With a custom repair of AOO and custom install of LO perhaps.
Or you can use the portable version of LO for Calc and change the file association so that Calc files are opened by LO and not AOO.

[us71na]

I uninstalled the old version and download 4.1.13 and it does the same thing. On a brand new file I can copy and paste a single cell as many times as I want. I can even paste a single cell copy into multiple cells. As soon as I try to copy more than one cell at a time, the program freezes.

[vbunch]

Run your Windows in Safe Mode, stat OpenOffice, and see if it is slow in that mode. If not, you need to look for crosstalk from some application or driver that runs in Windows normal mode.

well, that's complicated for a piece of software that should not crash. I reported today that calc has crashed 3,000 times in 8 years, no pattern. just now crashed after I input many tedious numbers, and I saved every few minutes because it crashes so often. just can't save often enough to not lose a lot of data. people at openoffice seem to not care, crashing is way way way beyond normal. I have 600 programs, and none crash often.

nothing to do with printers (last install was 3 years ago), and nothing to do with copy/paste. calc just crashes, seems to be mostly when it autosaves, which I have turned off, that's a separate problem. I persevere only because microsoft excel is extremely bad notorious evil corrupt. I met bill gates in 1981, crummy pos.

[vbunch]

Same problem here. Try to mark text in a spreadsheet I have been updating since 2009, and as soon ass I select copy of a moderate amount of columns, Calc freezes. About 160 columns of 15 rows. Large, but not crazy large.

I am right up to date with Win 11 versions, so it looks like an interaction between Windows and OpenOffice. I update this spreadsheet every month on the first, and last month it worked. In fact, this morning I was able to do the copy, and the app hung later in the update process, just pasting data into single cells.
I upgraded from .7 to .13. No better. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling, no help. I renamed the user file. No improvement.

Tom

well, that's complicated for a piece of software that should not crash. I reported today that calc has crashed 3,000 times in 8 years, no pattern. just now crashed after I input many tedious numbers, and I saved every few minutes because it crashes so often. just can't save often enough to not lose a lot of data. people at openoffice seem to not care, crashing is way way way beyond normal. I have 600 programs, and none crash often.

I suspect that copy/paste instructs office calc to temp save changes, and that is the problem. watch the status bar on bottom. when calc crashes, the status bar hangs. I bet the calc software weenies say "geez, never looked into that."

nothing to do with printers (last install was 3 years ago), and nothing to do with copy/paste. calc just crashes, seems to be mostly when it autosaves, which I have turned off, that's a separate problem. I persevere only because microsoft excel is extremely bad notorious evil corrupt. I met bill gates in 1981, crummy evil arrogant pos.

[orionstar]

I'll confirm that. A single cell copy is no problem but multiple cells is. This would hardly indicate any relation to the installation of a printer driver.

I uninstalled the old version and download 4.1.13 and it does the same thing. On a brand new file I can copy and paste a single cell as many times as I want. I can even paste a single cell copy into multiple cells. As soon as I try to copy more than one cell at a time, the program freezes.

How's this for a strategy?
In Task Manager, I have about 90 Windows processes and 70 background processes running (Win11 v22H2). (Wow, Firefox has 14 running in the Apps). Is there a way to copy the list to swriter or even Windows Notepad? I could then share it on Google Docs and anyone with the link could edit. We could then report on the Doc if deleting the process in Task Manager had any beneficial effect on the scalc problem, by highlighting the process name in green for no effect and red for an effect. If someone finds a red, then report it to this thread so that others can confirm. This would avoid duplication of effort and we can divide up the work - one person could start from the top, another from the bottom, someone else partway through the list, etc.

[Hagar Delest]

There are so many bugs in AOO that are not in LO that I would first check if the same file works fine with LO. If so, then why bother keeping AOO?
Sadly, I think it's a lost cause. The forum is plenty of happy users after having switched to LO.

If you were to apply your strategy, it would require that each systems react the same way, not easy if the effort is to be shared.
Then, have you tried to file a bug report and discuss with the devs? As long as it is not an easily reproducible sequence of actions, nothing will happen.
They believe what they see (what they can reproduce), they won't rely on any investigation performed by amateur users like us.
I tried that with the ### issue, listing topics to help narrow the smoking gun. But in vain, despite this issue being IMHO a showstopper for anyone having a serious use of an office suite.

[John_Ha]

Same problem here. Try to mark text in a spreadsheet I have been updating since 2009 ...

You will appreciate that what you are experiencing is not very common or Calc would be unusable for the millions who use it successfully. So, if you want to find out what is causing your problem you need to look for something in your environment. Do the following.

1. Editing the same file for 14 years will almost certainly make it "tangled" - search the Writer forum with tangled for an explanation. Copy the contents of the file to a new, empty file. Does that new file crash?

2. Reinstalling AOO does not reset the User Profile where corrupt user profiles are know to cause strange problems. Reset the user profile - see Resetting the user profile.

3. One of your other programs may be interfering with Calc - clipboard managers are notorious for causing problems. Do a test by starting the PC in Safe Mode - Google for how. Does it happen in Safe Mode?

Report back what happens in each of the three cases.

[orionstar]

Using the strategy, anything that comes up red is worth seeing how reproducible it is, and then mentioning it to the developers. It may also offer a workaround path if the interfering process is avoidable. I'm not familiar with the ### issue, but I would agree that this copy hang issue is a showstopper for even casual use of the AOO spreadsheet program. I still have Excel (MS Office 2000) on some of my older computers and spreadsheets in .xls could go back and forth to sCalc with only some format alterations. But it is not so convenient to transfer files and switch computers just to use a spreadsheet program.

[John_Ha]

They believe what they see (what they can reproduce), they won't rely on any investigation performed by amateur users like us.

Hagar

It may be choice of words but it's not a case of their disbelieving us. Solving intermittent bugs is virtually impossible - they need something reproduceable every time so they can track down the code causing the problem and prove that the changes they make stop the problem.

The #### problem seems to be caused by the PC crashing before the buffer is flushed. Other programs report the problem and attribute it to the PC crashing before the buffer is written to disk.

Obsidian : File content was replaced with null characters,
Notepad++ : Fix corrupted txt file (NULL). There are many reports about Notepad++.

[Hagar Delest]

1. Editing the same file for 14 years will almost certainly make it "tangled"

I hope not!
I have old files and I trust the ODF to keep it consistent.

[John_Ha]

I have old files and I trust the ODF to keep it consistent.

Hagar

File age isn't the problem - editing one file hundreds or thousands of times is the problem.

AOO is not designed to do thousands of edits to one file and doesn't have a "clean-up" capability to remove unwanted and superfluous complexity from a heavily edited file. A proper commercial database like DB2 or Oracle is regularly (sometimes daily) reorganised to maintain its performance. It's a bit like when you buy an appliance like a vacuum cleaner or microwave oven. The guarantee is only valid in a domestic environment, not in a commercial environment. Commercial appliances are necessarily much more robustly built than domestic appliances so as to cope with the much higher usage ... and thus much more expensive.

There are many posts on the forum search with tangled, especially in Writer, where copy > paste "removes the tangles" and resolves the issue. I have seen it make a file many MB smaller.

In this thread we have a user whose Calc file freezes when he attempts to copy it. After copy > paste the poster replied

That worked. I was a bit put off by the term "tangled" ... My process each month is to copy all the columns for the last 13 years * 12 months and paste them one column over. I then enter this months results in column B and copy it to the first column in the 13 years of data. Apparently, if you do that enough, it causes "tangling". The spreadsheet on disk is small - only 68 kb.

I was unable to even copy the 13 years worth of data, much less paste it, so I copied it in two parts to a new spreadsheet, then copied the 2nd sheet to that new spreadsheet as well. Now it works again.

Thanks for the tip. I would not have tried that.

Similarly Re: [Solved] Compressing size of an odt containing large images says (after copying and pasting)

I'm amazed at the improvement of the second file after I saved the contents of the original into a new file ('removing the tangles'). Just doing that has made it tolerable to work with ... I'm so grateful.

[orionstar]

I will throw in that the heavily edited spreadsheet problem isn't specific to AOO sCalc. I've run into it with MS Excel spreadsheets that had many edits, and the same solution of pasting into a new sheet works. I haven't encountered it in Google Sheets. I don't remember if it happened with Quattro Pro, but didn't see it in VisiCalc.

Hagar

File age isn't the problem - editing hundreds and thousands of times is the problem.

AOO is not designed to do thousands of edits to one file and doesn't have a "clean-up" capability to remove unwanted and superfluous complexity from a heavily edited file as does a proper database, where regular reorganising is critical for good performance. It's a bit like when you buy an appliance like a vacuum cleaner or microwave oven. The guarantee is only valid in a domestic environment, not in a commercial environment. Commercial appliances are much more robustly designed than domestic appliances so as to cope with the much higher usage ... and thus much more expensive.

There are many posts on the forum search with tangled, especially in Writer, where copy > paste removes the "tangles". I have seen it make a file many MB smaller.

In this thread we have me advising to copy > paste a Calc spreadsheet here and the poster replying

[Hagar Delest]

Well, I'm not convinced. Maybe in Calc because there can be a bunch of cells and formulas. But with Writer, I don't see how a file could be tangled. Of course there can be successive layers of formatting (especially with conditional formatting in spreadsheets) but if the application is not fit to handle that, that's a problem.
Personally, I've never experienced that. I have an old Writer file, 9 years old, 3,300+ hours of edition and 1,700+ saved and no problem. A spreadsheet with 200 hours and saved 700 times, 9 years old too, no problem.

The files (former one and new one) should be compared to check what has changed exactly.

AOO or LO should be designed to perform thousands of edits to files. That is what is expected. If you have to clean up all your files every 10 years because the application introduced glitches, that's a real problem.

[John_Ha]

But with Writer, I don't see how a file could be tangled.

Hagar

Search the Writer forum with tangled for many posts like Re: [Solved] Compressing size of an odt containing large images which says

I'm amazed at the improvement of the second file after I saved the contents of the original into a new file ('removing the tangles'). Just doing that has made it tolerable to work with but I will be following all the other advice just to become more knowledgeable. I'm so grateful.

I can imagine a situation where a table has cells merged, then split, then merged with different cells, then split differently. Such a table definition would become complex and, if the table was split and merged back to its original format, I expect the XML would be far more complex. It is perhaps no coincidence that the above poster's document was based on tables.

[Hagar Delest]

Something to investigate next time by comparing the files if we can get a hand on such files.

[orionstar]

The custom install list for LO does not allow one to install the calc separately or not install the others, unlike AOO. With LO, one installs essentially everything with some options for languages and a few other minor components. LO's calc does work with copy and paste, so I'll use that for now until a solution comes up for AOO's sCalc.

Can one install only the spreadsheet part of LO and remove the scalc of OO?

[Hagar Delest]

Meaning that LO is at least less sensitive to how much a file is "tangled", if that has anything to do with the real issue.

[orionstar]

Meaning that LO is at least less sensitive to how much a file is "tangled", if that has anything to do with the real issue.

There are two separate issues that are becoming intercalated in this message thread. One is related to a spreadsheet that has been edited multiple times. The other is the more recent development of AOO sCalc hanging on copying cells in Windows 11 which is related to the OP. Shall we separate them by tags or into separate threads?

[John_Ha]

There are two separate issues that are becoming intercalated in this message thread. One is related to a spreadsheet that has been edited multiple times. The other is the more recent development of AOO sCalc hanging on copying cells in Windows 11 which is related to the OP. Shall we separate them by tags or into separate threads?

They are interlinked. A "tangled" file has been shown to be the cause of Calc hanging or crashing on Copy/Paste because copying that file to a new, empty file stops the problem.

That being said the original thread has been hijacked several times!

NB There is no application called sCalc - it is called Calc. scalc.exe is the name of one of the executable files.

[ClassicDev]

Try the three magic words when starting OpenOffice: "Run as administrator".
Worked for me after trying everything else.

[Hagar Delest]

Running as administrator should only be used to check if the problem is linked to the account or more broadly with the application. It is NOT something to use on a regular basis (it defeats the point of the OS protection).

[orionstar]

Try the three magic words when starting OpenOffice: "Run as administrator".
Worked for me after trying everything else.

Already tried that. Doesn't help with the Win11 related copy problem with AOO Calc. Installed LO which does work.

[cicorp]

It is outrageous that OpenOffice crashes like this. It is so sad because Open Office has been great for many years. Microsoft Windows 11 screws things up, with a horrible start menu interface. Sadly, I can't spend any more time retyping lost data and appreciate the tip about Libre Office. I will check back to see if AOO has an upgrade to deal with Windows 11.

[jrkrideau]

The custom install list for LO does not allow one to install the calc separately or not install the others, unlike AOO. With LO, one installs essentially everything with some options for languages and a few other minor components. LO's calc does work with copy and paste, so I'll use that for now until a solution comes up for AOO's sCalc.

Gnumeric? IIRC a bit light-weight compared to Calc but very good and uses the same data format.