[Issue] Parentheses and Absolute values look the same

[jpshinny]

I have a problem with parentheses and absolute values.

The curvature on the parentheses is so slight that my students are confusing the two on exams and homework. I have tried giving a different font to everything, but nothing appears to affect the parentheses. The spacing options do not include parameters for the curvature.

I did not have this problem before I installed Heron.

Do I have to resort to *shudder* Microsoft Word's equation editor?

Jonathan

[acknak]

Here's a screenshot of what I'm seeing; how does it compare with your output?

I agree that the standard math parens are rather thin and straight, but that's pretty standard for professional math typesetting, and it seems not so hard to distinguish from the absolute value bars as long as the size is big enough. The spacing is a key difference.

Viewing on a low-res screen could make it more difficult.

The only alternative I can think of is to use text parens (third from left), they're a little more distinct.

The last column is using plain text in different fonts. None of the fonts I tried look significantly clearer to me.

[jpshinny]

I'm having trouble uploading a screenshot. But your parentheses seem more curved.

I use fractions and so forth, so text parentheses will not do.

Using bold helps a lot, but I can not figure out how to bold the parentheses without bolding the stuff inside.

[acknak]

You can use the "Upload Attachment" link (below the "POST REPLY" message entry area), but there is a limit on the size of the file. See [Forum] How to attach a document here for some alternatives.

I think once you need the scaled parentheses, you're really out of options. I don't know of any way to have Math use a different font, or a different weight, for those symbols.

You could do the formulas in Draw and have total control, but that could be a prohibitive amount of work if you have a more than just a few, or a few types of, formulas.

I see that someone has filed an issue requesting the same thing you did, parens like MS Word: Issue 21628: Microsoft Equation editor styled scalable parenthesis needed
You can register there and add your vote (up to two) or comment. The issue was resolved as "WORKSFORME", so you'll have to ask that it be reopened.

It might be helpful to include a screenshot showing the difference in the output of OOo Math and MS Office.

FWIW, I agree with you about the scaled brackets; they're much less readable than the standard-height version. You can see why if you play with them in Draw: OOo forms the scaled brackets by literally stretching the normal parenthesis character to make it taller, giving a thin, stretched result. "Real" math typesetting scales the brackets without distorting them.

[Horus]

People might think we are picky, but I have to agree with jpshinny: the parentheses are too thin.

Here are two samples at comparable size: one by OOO 3.3 and one by Wikipedia (which is using a variant of LaTeX engine). It's obvious that parentheses by OOO is not curved enough. At smaller size, the difference is even harder to distinguish.

[floris v]

I see that someone has filed an issue requesting the same thing you did, parens like MS Word: Issue 21628: Microsoft Equation editor styled scalable parenthesis needed
You can register there and add your vote (up to two) or comment. The issue was resolved as "WORKSFORME", so you'll have to ask that it be reopened.

That was closed in 2003(as unreproducible) and the problem still persists. Acknack, is that really the one you meant?

[acknak]

Yes, as I read the description and comments there, it sounds like the same problem.

The OOo developers have always been very reluctant to recognize anything but outright errors in the code--producing the wrong symbol, for example. Aesthetic issues like this just never seemed to get any serious consideration much attention.

The last comment from the developer on that thread is: "reopen if needed."

I would suggest adding a comment there, asking that the issue be re-opened, with the type changed to "enhancement" rather than "defect." This is not an error, just poor appearance. Attach the samples to make the point clearer.

Oh, and it's always worth another search; there are lots of duplicate issues in the database. There may be another issue open already.

[floris v]

Done, going to do the attachments now.