[Solved] Undeletable page when filling whole page with table

[tommach]

I'm trying to design vocabulary test form. You can view file here:

testowa.odt

(16.09 KiB) Downloaded 118 times

Id like to fill whole page(excluding margins, footer and header) with table, but when I manually increase rows height, a situation shown below happens - new undeletable page is created after table(tried DEL and BACKSPACE).

Minor [problem, but im interested if there is a solution. Could mess page numbering,

Is it possible to create table(that will be broken between pages) in OOWriter, so it fills whole available height of page and described problem doesn't occur?

[acknak]

Greetings and welcome to the community forum!

OO Writer refuses to delete the paragraph after any table. If the empty paragraph does not fit on the page, then a new page is started.

There are several workarounds. One simple one is to change the text size for the empty paragraph to something like two point; that may allow it to fit below the table without forcing a new page. Likewise, you can decrease the bottom margin of the page to make a bit more room.

[MrProgrammer]

OO Writer refuses to delete the paragraph after any table.

Though my experience with Writer is limited compared to many of the volunteers here, I would say that the situation arises because:

1. a table must be part of a paragraph, and
2. a table always occupies an entire line of a paragraph — one cannot have anything to the left or to the right of a table.

Therefore Writer must create an empty line of the paragraph after the table because the the end of the paragraph cannot be on the same line as the table. If this empty line cannot fit on the page, a new one is started. The situation is easier to understand if you enable View → Nonprinting Characters so you can see the paragraph mark which terminates the paragraph containing the table. I usually correct the difficulty by setting a very small font size for the (empty) text at the end of the paragraph. Comments from other volunteers are welcomed. I have been unable to find documentation about point B above, but this seems to be the case.

[RoryOF]

To get something left or right of a table needs trickery. Off the top of my head I see the following methods: one could use a section of three columns with the table in the centre column. One could use a frame and insert the table into the frame. One could use an outer table (probably with no borders to conceal that it is a table) with the other table in the centre cell. One could use a single table, with merged left and right cells, leaving the unmerged centre cells.

Personally, I'd reconsider my layout if this situation arose!

The small font size for the last objected to line is probably the best solution to the OP's problem. Note that 2pts is the smallest line height allowed (1/36 inch, or 0.071cm).

[MrProgrammer]

To get something left or right of a table needs trickery

Thanks for those ideas. But for this situation, we are interested in a particular something — the empty line following the table — and some of the trickery may not apply.

One could use a section of three columns with the table in the centre column.

I don't believe one can get, using a multi-column format, the table to be in one column and the following empty line and paragraph mark to be in another column. At least I wasn't able to do that.

Edit: On the second try I did get this to work. I used a 2-column layout with the table in the left column and the empty line in the right column. The multi-column idea gets more complicated when the table does not occupy the entire page because one must first insert a section to prevent the multi-column format from affecting text earlier on the page. But I got that to work, too, after I disabled Format → Sections → Options → Columns → Evenly distribute contents to all columns.

One could use an outer table (probably with no borders to conceal that it is a table) with the other table in the centre cell

Yes, but then Writer needs an empty line after the outer table and that empty line may cause a new page to be started.

One could use a single table, with merged left and right cells, leaving the unmerged centre cells.

Writer still needs an empty line after the table with merged cells.

One could use a frame and insert the table into the frame.

This gets more interesting. Writer still needs an empty line within the frame at the end of the table. However, one could then change the frame's height so that the empty line is hidden! This could be an alternate solution, though it seems as if not using a frame and changing the font size for the empty line is easier.

The small font size for the last objected to line is probably the best solution to the OP's problem.

I was also able to prevent the empty line from creating a new page using Format → Character → Font Effects → Hidden. When using View → Nonprinting characters the second page is visible. When View → Nonprinting characters is turned off, the added page disappears. File → Print Preview shows no extra page. It's been fun to explore these ideas.

[RoryOF]

My thoughts on placing text left and right of a table were simply an answer to your aside of positioning text either side of a table and had not been worked out in any practical way; we see once again that there are almost always several approaches to and cures of a problem in OpenOffice.

Note that hidden text and hidden sections can cause numbering anomalies, so I would advise use of (and would use myself) the 2pt trailing line after a full page table. But I stress I'm not a table user - most of my text in extended works is narrative text and for me tables/lists don't arise in that work.

[keme]

Trickery for you:
Place the cursor in the very end of the last table cell (after all text). Nothing selected, just a plain text cursor.
Press ctrl+shift+delete.

[MrProgrammer]

Trickery for you: Place the cursor in the very end of the last table cell (after all text). Nothing selected, just a plain text cursor. Press ctrl+shift+delete.

I'd call that a solution, not a trick! The corresponding sequence for a Mac keyboard is Shift+Fn+Command+Delete.

[keme]

Trickery for you: Place the cursor in the very end of the last table cell (after all text). Nothing selected, just a plain text cursor. Press ctrl+shift+delete.

I'd call that a solution, not a trick!...

Oh well... I guess you are right. Bad wording. However, there was some mention of trickery above, and I don't understand the reason why we need a key combination when a simple keypress should suffice. Also, I can't find my source for this information (although I'm sure that I got it from this forum some time). This made "trickery" look like an appropriate term at the time.

Good job to supply the Mac "chord fingering", by the way.

[acknak]

Someone may want to test the solution.

As I recall, Writer always adds the extra paragraph when the file is saved and re-loaded.

[MrProgrammer]

Someone may want to test the solution.

Using OOo 3.2 on Mac OS X 10.9 Shift+Fn+Command+Delete removes the paragraph mark after the table, but saving and reopening (or File → Reload) restores the paragraph mark after the table. I realize that's an old Open Office release, but it serves my needs.

[keme]

Quite right, same problem with AOO 4.1.2 on Win7 and one LO (didn't check version, 4.something I think) on Linux Mepis MX 14. Helps for print and PDF export, but not as a permanent solution for the editable file.