Line under text. Reset style to modified text.

[Hilcat]

Hi, everyone,
After years and years (and years) of using Lotus WordPro, I'm trying to learn OpenOffice so I can mesh into the work world. So here are my first three questions:

Question 1:
I'm in the habit of using the Equal Sign key, tapped four or five times, to separate different comments when doing research.

Example:
=====
Another comment
=====
another comment
=====
When I did this in OO, it automatically changed into a double line across the entire page. How do I turn this off?

Question 2:
I've very used to using styles to format my pages and paragraphs. Is it possible, in OO, to format a bit of text the way I want, then reset the style to that formatting? Or do I have to modify the style first, then apply it to the text?

Question 3:
I use frames a LOT. I managed to create and fill a frame with text, and after much difficulty, managed to drag the top edge a bit lower on the page (I still don't know what I did right). But the frame still hugs (locked to!) the bottom of the page. Is there a way to have total control over the placement of the frame?

Thanks so much!

Hilcat
Los Angeles, Calif

[huw]

1. Tools > AutoCorrect > Options > Apply border > OFF
2. 1. With the Styles pane open (F11)
   2. Select the text and the style should highlight grey
   3. Now press the top right hand button (New Style from selection) which looks like a sheet of paper with the corner turned up, and has a dotted box on it, and a green cross at the corner
   4. Choose the Update Style option
3. Sorry, I've never knowingly used a frame. Hopefully someone else can help

[floris v]

Unselect the frame (click with your mouse in another part of the page, then move the mouse over the frame until you see a cross-cursor. Right click, select Frame.
Toy around a bit with the position settings on the Type tab, especially for vertical positioning. Try all the options, it's a great way to get to know them, much better than reading the manual. Get back here if that doesn't help you. If it does help you, please come back too and say so - add [Solved] to the title bar of your first post.

[acknak]

I don't think it's the frame position settings that are causing the problem. The only time a frame's position is constrained is when it's anchored "As character", and then it's constrained horizontally, not vertically.

How did you insert the frame? How are you trying to move it?

PS: Have you read the Forum Survival Guide? It really is best to stick to one question for any thread. There's no advantage to doing three at once.

[foxcole]

Question 2:
I've very used to using styles to format my pages and paragraphs. Is it possible, in OO, to format a bit of text the way I want, then reset the style to that formatting? Or do I have to modify the style first, then apply it to the text?

What methods are you using to format the bit of text? Be very careful with this. In Writer, formats are applied either through styles or through direct formatting. The toolbar tools apply direct formatting, and you don't want this because it causes all kinds of confusion in unexpected places, even if the user has been working with OOo for quite some time.

I strongly recommend you use the Stylist to apply all the formatting to your text. It really isn't any more difficult than using the toolbar... in fact, to me, it's easier because it puts all the style options together, in one dialog.

Question 3:
I use frames a LOT. I managed to create and fill a frame with text, and after much difficulty, managed to drag the top edge a bit lower on the page (I still don't know what I did right). But the frame still hugs (locked to!) the bottom of the page. Is there a way to have total control over the placement of the frame?

Would it be possible for you to post a sample? This is not typical behavior for a frame; typically you do have total control over the placement.

[Hilcat]

Hi, I'm back.

I do usually know to post only one question per query, but I was really tired that night . . . . I promise to behave from now on.

Re redefining a style to match modified text:

I followed huw's instructions and opened the Styles pane, made my changes to the text, and followed steps 3-4. It did not retroactively change the rest of the text of that style. Did I miss something?
I do see that Foxcole says this isn't the recommended way to change styles. I may just have to learn to use the <Edit Paragraph Style>.

Re: My renegade frame: I've posted a sample document here: http://www.proppersource.com/OpenOffice-help.htm. If there's an easier way to attach a document directly to this forum, let me know --.

Thanks,
Hilcat

[foxcole]

I followed huw's instructions and opened the Styles pane

You do mean the Styles and Formatting window, right? That's also known as the Stylist, and this is in fact the method I recommend. Or do I misunderstand?

Re: My renegade frame: I've posted a sample document here: http://www.proppersource.com/OpenOffice-help.htm. If there's an easier way to attach a document directly to this forum, let me know --.

Yep, there's an easier way. Below the message edit window (below the Save, Preview and Submit buttons) are two tabs, one labeled Options and the other, Upload Attachment.

I tried to follow the link to the sample document but received a 404 Not Found error.

[huw]

Re redefining a style to match modified text:

I followed huw's instructions and opened the Styles pane, made my changes to the text, and followed steps 3-4. It did not retroactively change the rest of the text of that style. Did I miss something?
I do see that Foxcole says this isn't the recommended way to change styles. I may just have to learn to use the <Edit Paragraph Style>.

One of us is getting mixed up here. You asked

Question 2:
I've very used to using styles to format my pages and paragraphs. Is it possible, in OO, to format a bit of text the way I want, then reset the style to that formatting? Or do I have to modify the style first, then apply it to the text?

and that was the question I tried to answer. If you have not yet formatted your text, as your new post implies, then yes, it is quicker to set up the style directly and then apply it to the text.

Even if using the four step method I posted earlier you will still need to apply the style to other text - Writer will not seek out identically formatted text and swap it to the style, although that would be a nice feature (does Word do that?). You will also need to remove direct (non-style) formatting after applying your style, by selecting the text and using the right-click option of "Default Formatting". This is because direct formatting overrides styles - if left in place, future changes to the style won't necessarily show up on the text until overlying direct formatting is removed.

Note that unfortunately all character formatting (e.g. a single bolded word in a paragraph) is removed by the right-click option "Default Formatting", even if it is done with a character style, so do that last, after all paragraph styles are in place and all direct formatting removed.

[acknak]

Note that unfortunately all character formatting... is removed by the right-click option "Default Formatting", even if it is done with a character style

I'm not closely following this discussion, so I may have missed something important, but I don't think that last part is right. Applied character styles are not removed, only direct character and paragraph formatting. That's another advantage of using character styles.

[foxcole]

but I don't think that last part is right. Applied character styles are not removed, only direct character and paragraph formatting. That's another advantage of using character styles.

Ah, unfortunately, that's not true. Character styles lie on "top" of paragraph styles. When you apply default formatting, you're applying default paragraph formatting. Character styles are not part of the paragraph formatting; they sit on top of it like direct formats do. The main advantages to character styles are consistency, the ability to adjust all characters of a particular style at the same time, and language settings.

[acknak]

Ok, I'm not sure what's going on here, except that it's clear that my brain thing is broken, again.

I was sure that it worked like I said, that character styles survived a Format > Default. It seems to me that's how it ought to work, and when I tested it to be sure, it actually did work that way:

The top paragraph has direct formatting (blue+italic) and a character style ("Emphasis", modified to have a gold background) applied.

I copied the pp, then selected it and did Format > Default. The bottom pp shows the result: direct formatting is gone, the character style is still there.

So what's happening?

The answer is in the window title: I was testing the current developer snapshot, and it behaves differently than 2.3.1, which removes all character formatting, as you and huw said.

Here's the only issue I could find: Issue 47893: Format --> Default resets applied character style. It is not marked as having any work being done, so I'm not sure if this change is intentional or accidental.

So, you guys are absolutely right, and I am still merely confused. Sorry for interrupting your thread.

[huw]

Note that unfortunately all character formatting... is removed by the right-click option "Default Formatting", even if it is done with a character style

I'm not closely following this discussion, so I may have missed something important, but I don't think that last part is right. Applied character styles are not removed, only direct character and paragraph formatting. That's another advantage of using character styles.

It was a lesson I learnt the hard way recently. Remove direct formatting but retain character styles