[Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

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vinnyoffice
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[Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by vinnyoffice »

This bug is driving me nuts. I am using 3.0.0.

Whenever I try to create a numbered list, the 10th element has a super wide indent in front of the text. I tried clearing the formatting and it does not work.

I tried this.. I open a new document and I enter a numbered list over 10.
2008-11-19_152504.png
Then I highlight the text and change the font to Verdana. Boom! 10th element gets indented to the right.
2008-11-19_152533.png
Why does the list indent to the right after item 10? It seems to be a problem with Verdana? I can eliminate this problem if I create a new document and enter a list and copy and paste the text over one by one. It seems like if I use Verdana, it messes up! In the original document where this bug appeared.. There is nothing I can do to fix it.
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Mon May 10, 2010 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tagged [Solved].
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acknak
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

OOo 3 has changed the way lists are laid out. There is a tab between the number and the start of the text. It isn't a normal tab stop: you can't delete the tab and you don't set it's position in the paragraph formatting. Instead, you configure it on the Bullets and Numbering > Position tab.

You can either: a) make the tab position wider, or b) change the numbering alignment to "right"; then the numbers will get wider toward the left as they need more digits.
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vinnyoffice
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by vinnyoffice »

This feels so unnatural. I was not expecting the numbers after 10 to mess up like this.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by vinnyoffice »

You should test it again. I just did it again. I don't think what you're saying should be necessary.

I created a new document and entered over 10 items in a numbered list. Everything seems normal. However, once I highlight the text and change the font to Verdana, elements 10 onwards have this huge indent.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

It happens because Verdana is slightly wider than the default font. The numbers all fit within the tab position with the narrower font, but the two-digit numbers won't fit when you switch to the wider Verdana font. When the numbers extend paste the tab position, the tab is expanded to the next default tab stop, so you get a big space but only with the wider, two-digit numbers.

Go to Bullets and Numbering > Position and change the "Numbering Alignment" to "Right" and watch what happens.

If it still seems to be acting funny, attach a sample document here that shows the problem and maybe that will help clarify what's going on.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by winnph »

My solution to this problem was simply changing the character following the number from a tab to a space (Numbering/Bullets dialog, Position tab, change "Number followed by" from "tab stop" to "space"). This makes the elements not perfectly aligned with one another, but I'd rather have them be off by a space than off by an entire tab stop.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by TheGurkha »

Follow acknak's advice above and you don't need to have anything out of alignment.

Here is a list of 10+ items in Verdana.
Aligned 10+ items in Verdana.
Aligned 10+ items in Verdana.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by winnph »

I tried following acknak's advice, but it then it pushes some wide characters (such as wide roman numerals) far to the left, like VIII in the attached image. By using a space instead, the numbers stay lined up to the left, and the text stays nearby to the right of those.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

Using a space after the number is a good choice.

I only suggested the right-alignment as a quick way to demonstrate what causes the problem.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by TheGurkha »

acknak wrote:You can either: a) make the tab position wider, or b) change the numbering alignment to "right"; then the numbers will get wider toward the left as they need more digits.
I should have said, I used option a).
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by raffo »

Is there a way to make any of these suggestions permanent?

The users in our office and me get perplexed and frustrated when bullet/numbered lists get unaligned and don't know how to fix the layout.
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Hagar Delest
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by Hagar Delest »

IMHO, better never use the bullet button in toolbar and apply a list style from the Stylist (F11). Just customize one and save it in your default template.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

The users in our office and me get perplexed and frustrated when bullet/numbered lists get unaligned and don't know how to fix the layout.
I've started putting together a tutorial on lists. Could you send me one of your "broken" documents, so I can see what kind of problems you're running into, and try to address how to troubleshoot and fix them?

You can attach a sample here--use the "Upload Attachment" link (below the message entry area after you click "POST REPLY"). [Forum] How to attach a document here--, or click the PM link and ask me for an email address.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by sherbert »

I, too, have spent hours experimenting with Outline Numbering, Right Aligned Numbers and indenting. Here is my latest problem.
Screenshot.png
The numbering is specified as "Right Aligned" in both Outline Numbering and under Bullets and Numbering. However, the numbering does not align to the right. The text to Paragraph 10 starts further to the right than the text to Paragraph 9.
Any suggestions would be most appreciated,
thank you
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

It's pretty hard to guess what's going on from a screen capture. Can you attach a sample document that shows the problem?

You can use the "Upload Attachment" link (below the message entry area after you click "POST REPLY"). [Forum] How to attach a document here
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by sherbert »

SOLVED
Thank you, acknak, for taking a look at this.
In order to follow your suggestion, I copied the same section of text to a new document, and opened the Outline Numbering pane to set up the same parameters. In the new instance, the Outline Numbering pane Position tab offered "Numbering followed by". This is not the case in the original document.
It appears that I have drafted my document using a precedent (not a template, but an .odt edited and saved with a new name) which precedent had been created under a previous version of Open Office. That earlier document appears to have been endowed with all tools extant at the time of its creation, including the Outline Numbering feature.
I have copied the text of the subject document to a new document. I am now able to align the text as required.
I set the tab indent at zero and it still set the paragraph numbering apart from the paragraph, which is fine, but that is a different story.
So, SOLVED, for me, for now, thank you. And if not solved, then at least worked-around.
I need not trouble you further to analyse the differences between OO.o 3* and prior versions. Thank You.
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Re: Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

Is it possible that you started your document using an older version of OOo--e.g. 2.x? The list properties changed with OOo 3, and older documents keep the old set of list properties, while documents created with OOo 3 or later get the new set.
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Re: [Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by sherbert »

Respectful bow to Acknak. Other topics noted, inc 22043.

Using Outline Numbering, I cannot left-align paragraph text across 1-digit, 2-digit and 3-digit paragraph numbers.
Here are the actual paragraphs (apologies for the legalese, it is easier to screenshot than make up examples).
140415 screenshot paragraphs 9-10.png
140415 screenshot paragraphs 99-101.png
Outline numbering looks like this.
140415 screenshot outline numbering dialog.png
Paragraph Style is Indents; Before = 0, After = 0, First Line = 0.5cm.

All comments most welcome, thank you
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Re: [Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

I just noticed ... the dialog you show there is titled "Outline Numbering" but the screen captures above that show list numbering. These are similar but serve completely separate purposes in a document. Outline numbering applies to headings in the document, usually marked by the paragraph styles "Heading 1", "Heading 2" and so on. These would typically be headings like chapter titles, or numbered sub-headings, that together form the document structure or outline.

List numbering ("outline list") applies to a numbered sequence of paragraphs that are part of the body text of the document.

If you're unsure what type of numbering is applied to a specific paragraph, you can get to the proper configuration dialog window by a right-click, then choose "Numbering/Bullets".

For numbered paragraphs (an outline list), it's strongly recommended to use list style(s) and avoid using the buttons on the main toolbar. List styles make it easier to get consistent list settings across the entire document.
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post deleted

Post by sherbert »

[deleted, I was wasting your time]
Last edited by sherbert on Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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slightly off topic, List numbering not outline numbering

Post by sherbert »

OK, I have been making a hash of this.

Thanks to Acknak I have today discovered:
  • The tool to promote or demote paragraphs is available without using Outline Numbering.
    Numbering of document paragraphs, such as in an affidavit, is readily and, as Acknak advises, preferrably achieved by using the List Numbering tool, (right-click, Bullets & Numbering).
    One does not need to use Outline Numbering to make use of the Cross-reference feature.
    In List Numbering, cross referencing paragraphs is achieved by selecting Insert, Fields, cross-references, (type) Numbered Paragraphs, (selection), (insert reference to) Number (full context).
    As above, the List Numbering tool enables correct alignment by adjusting the Position values for I[/u]ndent, Width of numbering, Minimum space numberin <-> text and Numbering alignment.
    Good results appear when -indent (negative indent value) = Width (postive value).
I do hope that helps someone somewhere. In any event, Acknak has helped me and I extend my gratitude, yet again.
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Re: [Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by acknak »

Great! Sounds like you're on the trolley ;-)

One thing I forgot to mention, I try to make sure that the (numbered) paragraph indents are all set to zero. Any indents needed are provided through the numbering position settings.

That's not always necessary but it help keep the results predictable.
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Indents to Zero

Post by sherbert »

That numbered paragraphs indents to zero is the real nugget, for sure. Thanks. I have been twiddling all the knobs thinking that was the path to expertise. Leave well enough alone, the app has the power!
Thanks, again.
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Re: [Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by paulopzzb »

In my case, I found the solution by going to Format/ Bullets and Numbering/ Number Position: Left. Aligned at: 0". Text Position Indent at:0 and Add a tab stop at: 0.25". It worked for me. I hope it helps.
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Re: [Solved] Numbered List Indents After 10

Post by lonewoof »

I am trying to write Stand Operating Procedures for a creamery and butter factory... it is full of numbered lists.
You saved me!

THANK YOU !! :bravo:
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