Apache OpenOffice Community Forum

I was toying around with my computer and installed the latest version of LibreOffice Still (as a PortableApp) to see if there was anything in that of sufficient merit to make me want to change over from OpenOffice (PortableApp). As part of doing that I created a .odt document using LibreOffice. However, when I open that file into OpenOffice I get the following warning dialogue:
If I click the 'Update Now...' button then I eventually get a no updates available message and the document loads. If I click the 'Later' button the document just loads. In both cases the document, just a very simple text 'test' document, loads without further issues.

However, this leaves me quite perplexed: I thought that .ODT documents were in a universal format that could be used by any program utilising .ODT files. Seems the situation is more complicated than that. Can someone enlighten me on what is going on with this, please. Is it the case that in the future OpenOffice might not be able to load LibreOffice created .ODT files? Is it the case that 'complex' documents created in LibreOffice might not currently load properly in OpenOffice? (I don't have any complex documents to check with but maybe someone knows the answer to this.)

P.S. The OpenOffice version that I am currently using is v4.1.10 (from PortableApps). The LibreOffice version that I am currently using is v7.1.6.2 (from PortableApps).

The quick answer is that OpenOffice uses v1.2 of the OpenDocument format; more recent LibreOffice releases use v1.3, unless they have had that switched off in their preferences. But most users don't do that. I have not found any problems with opening v1.3 documents using OpenOffice, but I only remark for Writer.

Once or twice in a decade the Open Document Format gets some upgrade. As far as I can tell, database forms that have been created with LibreOffice 7 are heavily incompatible with OpenOffice. If OpenOffice does not have the resources to implement the latest document standard, it is no longer a reference implementation of this standard.

See ODF 1.3 becomes OASIS standard which says:

The most important new features of ODF 1.3 include digital signatures for documents and the OpenPGP-based encryption of XML documents, with improvements in areas such as change tracking and document security, additional details in the description of elements in first pages, text, numbers and charts.

The full ODF 1.3 Specification can be downloaded from OASIS website.

See OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

There is now a fair bit of divergence between OO and LO where macros are concerned - this is partly because LO has implemented some new features in their version of the macro language. It cuts both ways though - the LO document macros won't work in OO, nor the other way round. That's unless the macro writer has written extra code to ensure compatibility with both or restricted the code to what still works in both.

10 years after the fork there is is still a surprising level of compatibility, even on API level. The new version of Open Document Format seems to be a minor problem. OpenOffice should remove the irritating request for upgrade which was reasonable when OpenOffice used to be the one and only ODF reference implementation. When using both suites, a temporary solution would be Tools>Options>Load&Save: ODF format version 1.2 (extended) which is compatible with OpenOffice.

Okay guys, thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll (we'll) just need to wait see if OpenOffice implements ODF 1.3 in the nearish future.

That said, when I look in LibreOffice and check what format (by default in a new installation) it's saving documents in it says "ODF Format Version: 1.3 Extended (recommended)". I tried just setting that to "ODF Format Version: 1.3", saving a Writer document as that and opening it in OpenOffice; the result was that I still get the warning shown at the top of this thread.

In any case, I'm now wondering what the 'Extended' part of ODF 1.3 Extended actually means, indicates. I looked on the LibreOffice site for information on this, it does get mentioned as "advanced features", but there is nothing specific on what 'Extended' advanced features actually are.

Thinking about this it would seem that even if OpenOffice does implement 1.3 it's still going to land out of sync with what LibreOffice is doing with 1.3 Extended. So, it would seem to me that, in that kind of scenario, going into the future, divergence between OpenOffice and LibreOffice implementations of ODF 1.3 are almost guaranteed. This is a pity as it would seem to me that this undermines the whole point of ODF, absolute parity of implementation for all editors that use ODF. My own view would be that LibreOffice would be at fault in this regard.

LastUnicorn wrote: ... the whole point of ODF [is] absolute parity of implementation for all editors that use ODF.

That is not the point of ODF. The point of ODF is to create a published, documented standard which anyone can use.

LastUnicorn wrote:My own view would be that LibreOffice would be at fault in this regard.

Why?

The ODF standard has been updated from 1.2 to 1.3 to add more function, just like the standard was previously updated from 1.1 to 1.2, and no doubt previously updated from 1.0 to 1.1. ODF 1.3 is the current standard. ODF 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 are previous versions, now obsolete.

AOO currently uses 1.2 and almost certainly does not have the development resources to upgrade to the current standard so will remain on the obsolete 1.2 standard.

LO has upgraded to the new standard which is the correct thing to do. Users can save in 1.2 if they wish but that prevents use of the new function.

AOO is "at fault" in this scenario or certainly back level.

Use Windows as an example. If you are a programmer, you can write a program for the documented standard Windows 7. But what's the point when everyone has moved on to Windows 10 and Windows 7 is obsolete?

Villeroy wrote:When using both suites, a temporary solution would be Tools>Options>Load&Save: ODF format version 1.2 (extended) which is compatible with OpenOffice.

Well I have to admit that I am a fairly naive user of OpenOffice and LibreOffice, I don't use them a lot, but when I do it's because I need something done that my usual RTF editor/word-processor (TreePad Business Edition) can't manage. I would think most users are likewise pretty naive in their usage and would never think to adjust settings from the default regarding the version of ODF to use; it never occurred to me until I hit this current bump in the road. But thanks anyway for informing on the best workaround for now.

Maybe I'm being too conservative in my assessment of this as, after all, Microsoft Word offers multiple saving/opening formats to accommodate the various incarnations of Word .doc files. I was just living in my naive bubble that OpenOffice and LibreOffice had managed to avoid all that. Ah, well.

Okay, John_Ha. Your argument in your latest post is more informed and logical than mine so I take aboard all you say. Thanks very much for the thoughts.

EDIT: P.S. I don't agree that Windows 7 is obsolete. I'll be using it to the end of my days, or bailout and switch to Linux if I have to, no way would I 'upgrade' to Microsoft's latest spyware suite posing as an OS. But this is a whole other argument.

LastUnicorn wrote:I don't agree that Windows 7 is obsolete.

Trust me it's a dead as John Cleese's parrot.

Don't connect to the web because W7 is no longer supported. Hackers reverse engineer security fixes for W10 to identify the vulnerability they fix. They use that information to attack W7 in the often correct hope that the code in W7 is the same as the code in W10.

NB. See [Tutorial] Differences between Microsoft and AOO/LO files for a description of differences and for why you should always work in, and save Writer files as .odt, Calc files as .ods, Impress files as .odp, etc.

There's a famous author who still uses dos because the word processor he runs on it does what he wants.

Provided you don't go online there's no reason not to use any old software that works for you but won't work on newer Windows versions... and quite a few people do. You're more secure (totally) having an old machine you never go online with/otherwise expose to risks... than any one however up to date that you expose to the web.

Easy to create a dual boot with a version of Linux, or run a lightweight Linux off a USB stick for accessing the net. Some people don't want the distraction of being able to go on the net anyway.

John_Ha wrote:Don't connect to the web because W7 is no longer supported. Hackers reverse engineer security fixes for W10 to identify the vulnerability they fix. They use that information to attack W7 in the often correct hope that the code in W7 is the same as the code in W10.

And what do you do when Microsoft are the hackers? Their attitude/policy seems to be developing to the nature that your data is our data. Good luck in October when Win 11 starts hitting hard-drives.

John_Ha wrote:... you should always work in, and save Writer files as .odt, Calc files as .ods, Impress files as .odp, etc.

I always do. If I want to do anything different then I always do it to a copy of the .odt (master).

I see that OpenOffice v4.1.11 has just been released (06 October 2021). But from the Release Notes no mention of ODF v1.3. Dah, bummer. Will they ever do it?

LastUnicorn wrote:I see that OpenOffice v4.1.11 has just been released (06 October 2021). But from the Release Notes no mention of ODF v1.3. Dah, bummer. Will they ever do it?

Never. AOO is a zombie project. Version 4.1.0 (2015) was the last release with the side bar as the only significant change. 4.1.11 was necessary because they made a mistake in 4.1.10.