[Solved] Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

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[Solved] Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:26 am

There's another thread on ooo-dev that I invite your attention to with regard to the impact on Forum Governance. The thread is named "Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users." I appeal for your feedback and insight on how to address the impact this has on the OO.o Forums:

At some time, probably by the end of November but definitely before the end of the year, the myname@openoffice.org email forwarding will be shutdown. That service is simply not being migrated to Apache hosting. This is not a technological issue but a policy one.

I foresee a couple of impacts on Forum operations.

First, some e-mail addresses that are used as part of forum administration might have to be changed.

Secondly, folks who have used their openoffice.org e-mail addresses here as part of their registrations and in the ways to be reached via e-mail and Forum Private Message will need to make some sort of adjustments.

Third, though I don't think it is a problem (at least it hasn't been now that Apache hosting is in operation), there might be some breakage with account management where an openoffice.org ID/e-mail name is used.

My invitation to you and all of the Forum operations participants to check out the thread and contribute your brainpower to how to manage as soft a landing as possible for Forum users/operators impacted by this change.

Forums might also be a good place to announce the situation and the proposed remedies. I recommend that be held off until the discussion on ooo-dev converges and there is some sort of consistent, understandable message to provide. Forums may also be good places to get the word out in different languages, so the N-L Forum folks may be very helpful for that too.

PS: It might be useful to have information on the Forums about the forthcoming demise of all of the @openoffice.org mailing lists, as well. The lists themselves are receiving notifications, but this is a good place to let people who also use lists on occasion to know about the forthcoming changes.
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tagged [Solved].
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:37 pm

For the forum, can ASF infra team extract the accounts registered with a @openoffice.org mail and send a notification?
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby RGB » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:52 am

I only need to use my @openoffice.org address to log-in on Apache's bugzilla... which is quite weird considering that I did not need to use that "id" on the previous site.
So what will happen with bugzilla log-ins? AFAIK, there is no option to change the "user id" to something without the @openoffice.org part: you can only change what's before the @.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby kingfisher » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:00 am

On the bugs home page you see a link at the top labelled 'Preferences'. When you open that link you see a link (tab) labelled 'Account Information'. There is a field there labelled 'New email address'.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby RGB » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:07 am

kingfisher wrote:On the bugs home page you see a link at the top labelled 'Preferences'. When you open that link you see a link (tab) labelled 'Account Information'. There is a field there labelled 'New email address'.

Done. For some reason I was convinced that that will only change the redirected address, not the one used for log-in. Many thanks!
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:09 pm

RGB wrote:
kingfisher wrote:On the bugs home page you see a link at the top labelled 'Preferences'. When you open that link you see a link (tab) labelled 'Account Information'. There is a field there labelled 'New email address'.

Done. For some reason I was convinced that that will only change the redirected address, not the one used for log-in. Many thanks!


Interesting. I must try this. I thought it would keep the name@ OO.o and simply change where it forwarded to. It doesn't matter if it does it that way, the use on Bugzilla has nothing to do with the existence of an actual name@ OO.o account any longer. (How these turned into e-mail forms instead of just being the name part is a mystery of the migration from OO.o to AOO.o.) [One reason for keeping the name@ OO.o is because of the way history and cross-referencing is managed. I will have to see what happens when I change to destination on my profile.]
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:13 pm

Hagar Delest wrote:For the forum, can ASF infra team extract the accounts registered with a @openoffice.org mail and send a notification?


I am assuming this is not possible because the list is never going to come into ASF custody. And if the forwarding doesn't come over, it can't be done on the ASF side. Whether Oracle can lend a hand and do something before the full cut-over, I don't know. I would be delighted to have good news about that. I am not optimistic at this point.

Let's see what is resolved by the end of Monday (in North America). If there is no movement, it would be good to have ooo-dev alignment on at least notifying people by other means. The clock is ticking.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby Hagar Delest » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:37 pm

orcmid wrote:the list is never going to come into ASF custody. And if the forwarding doesn't come over, it can't be done on the ASF side.

I'm talking about the forum database. Don't tell me that no admin can extract the list of the accounts and then keep only the ones with an ooo mail address.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:58 pm

Well, there has been no real development since Nov. 10.

Concerning the forum, there are 40 users with an @openoffice.org address for their account. Here is the PM I'm ready to send:
Dear user,

Due to the move of the OOo project from Oracle to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF), the mail address name@openoffice.org will be shut down by the end of the year or maybe even before.

For further information, see: http://markmail.org/message/5l5xxbb7cdkkqgay

As a consequence, you should change your current forum account information and provide another valid mail address.

Sorry for this inconvenience.

Best regards
...

If no objection to the content, I'll send it by the end of next week.
 Edit: Done on Nov. 18. 

Concerning the other points:
1. Forum administration is not impacted AFAIK (except for some admins mail address but they will be notified as mentioned above and we also have the personal mail in their case).
2. Covered above.
3. ID breakage is an issue with the main OOo site, no link with the forum.

Forum is indeed a good place to propagate such news but it should be posted by someone having a clear "ASF hat" (i.e. either an Apache observer or a PPMC).

My opinion about that: we set up this forum to help users having troubles using OOo. I don't really want the forum to become a second blog. We can add a link to the incubator blog but I'm not sure it is the role of the Volunteers to do the work of the ASF when it comes to do the "marketing".
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:32 am

Hagar Delest wrote:
orcmid wrote:the list is never going to come into ASF custody. And if the forwarding doesn't come over, it can't be done on the ASF side.

I'm talking about the forum database. Don't tell me that no admin can extract the list of the accounts and then keep only the ones with an ooo mail address.


I don't know what you mean by "keep only the ones with an ooo address." You mean to send a bulk mail to those about how that e-mail will no longer work soon?

I think the procedure you proposed further down will handle the job better.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:38 am

Hagar Delest wrote:[ ... ]
If no objection to the content, I'll send it by the end of next week.

Concerning the other points:
1. Forum administration is not impacted AFAIK (except for some admins mail address but they will be notified as mentioned above and we also have the personal mail in their case).
2. Covered above.
3. ID breakage is an issue with the main OOo site, no link with the forum.

Forum is indeed a good place to propagate such news but it should be posted by someone having a clear "ASF hat" (i.e. either an Apache observer or a PPMC).

My opinion about that: we set up this forum to help users having troubles using OOo. I don't really want the forum to become a second blog. We can add a link to the incubator blog but I'm not sure it is the role of the Volunteers to do the work of the ASF when it comes to do the "marketing".


I think the notice you propose to send is perfect. And it comes from someone to whom their account information has been entrusted. That's a good thing.
 Edit: Are you able to coordinate with the NL Forum folk to have tranlations go to their accounts? 


If you think it is inappropriate to make wider notice at the Forums, that's fine. I came here because I thought it was something you might have advice on with regard to serving users, nothing else. I would prefer that some cynical spin wasn't always coming up.

I suppose there is nothing wrong with starting a Forum thread on the migration of OpenOffice and how to get questions about that answered, how that will impact users of the openoffice.org site, where there is other support information, etc? What do you suggest?

 Edit: I had also been thinking that when it is determined what the Apache product name will be, that it should belong in the "User community support forum for ..." summary in the top banner. Not sure AOO will fancy that, but it seems like a fair notion to me. It may also be that what I am thinking of in providing outward-facing project information might be best on the Wiki. Thoughts? 
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby Hagar Delest » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:41 am

orcmid wrote:Are you able to coordinate with the NL Forum folk to have tranlations go to their accounts?

Drew and Terry used to do such global annoucement in addition with the private section dedicated to such issue. I'll get in touch with Drew to collect all the NL admins accounts and forward the action.

orcmid wrote:I suppose there is nothing wrong with starting a Forum thread on the migration of OpenOffice and how to get questions about that answered, how that will impact users of the openoffice.org site, where there is other support information, etc? What do you suggest?

No problem at all. I just say that it would be better if such information is given not by forum Volunteers but by PPMC with their PPMC hat. We are a forum dedicated to the support of users in their daily use of OOo first, not issues linked to the project decisions. If discussions are to be held related to the running of the Project, I think (personal opinion here) that it will be a loss of energy for the Volunteers. I fear everyone come here to complain for a problem that is not linked with OOo itself.

orcmid wrote:I had also been thinking that when it is determined what the Apache product name will be, that it should belong in the "User community support forum for ..." summary in the top banner.

Of course. Why would we support something different from the official branding?
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby hanya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:15 am

Oops, I use this kind of address on extensions.services.openoffice.org but it does not provide function to change e-mail address...
Please, edit this thread's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby RGB » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:36 pm

orcmid wrote:Are you able to coordinate with the NL Forum folk to have tranlations go to their accounts?

On the Spanish forums, only six persons are registered with an @openoffice.org address, five of then have zero posts, the other already know of the change because active on the mailing lists.
I did an announcement on the "General discussion" forum some days ago but I'll send a PM to those users today.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby acknak » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:03 pm

Hagar Delest wrote:... I just say that it would be better if such information is given not by forum Volunteers but by PPMC with their PPMC hat. ...

For Dennis' benefit, I would point out that we never had that sort of relationship with Sun or Oracle.

Clayton hung out here and tried to coordinate where appropriate, but it was all un-official.

I was wondering if we couldn't have a special forum where ASF announcements were posted, either by manual copy/paste, or some automated email->forum script similar to the admin script Terry worked up.

BTW, do we have a plan for changing that email address? It's also @openoffice.org; is it also affected?
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:58 pm

acknak wrote:
Hagar Delest wrote:... I just say that it would be better if such information is given not by forum Volunteers but by PPMC with their PPMC hat. ...

For Dennis' benefit, I would point out that we never had that sort of relationship with Sun or Oracle.

Clayton hung out here and tried to coordinate where appropriate, but it was all un-official.

I was wondering if we couldn't have a special forum where ASF announcements were posted, either by manual copy/paste, or some automated email->forum script similar to the admin script Terry worked up.

BTW, do we have a plan for changing that email address? It's also @openoffice.org; is it also affected?


I think the relationship is mainly arms-length with ASF as far as routine operation. There was never a situation where Sun or Oracle was shutting down services that Forum users also relied upon, so there is no precedent. The additional complication here is that the Apache OOo does not now have nor will it have custody of those e-mail forwardings. They remain in Oracle custody. The list of registered Forum users is essentially now in your custody. For privacy and other reasons, ASF is wary of using them directly.

While you are pretty self-governing and -operating, you're also now part of the Apache OOo Podling and its incubation. That is a material difference.

It doesn't seem necessary to have an Apache notices mechanism. Once it is agreed what the Apache OOo Podling releases will be named, it might be useful to have a sub-forum for that product. Obviously, the main topic at first will be the migration effort and the preparations for an initial release. I suspect there are many questions users might have once there is a place to ask them conveniently. A pinned message could link to where there are announcements, information about Apache, and other information.

I don't know what email address is being referred to. If there is an @openoffice.org address that needs to be preserved, we need concrete information about what that is and what it points to now. Essentially all of the @openoffice.org e-mail lists and individually-forwarded e-mail addresses will cease near the final cutover of the openoffice.org domain to Apache custody.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby acknak » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:56 pm

I don't know what email address is being referred to.

forumadminen@openoffice.org

It's not a forwarded address (as far as I know) so it may not be affected. I assume @ooo will continue to be used, or does everything switch to an apache domain?
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby RGB » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:56 pm

RGB wrote:
orcmid wrote:Are you able to coordinate with the NL Forum folk to have tranlations go to their accounts?

On the Spanish forums, only six persons are registered with an @openoffice.org address, five of then have zero posts, the other already know of the change because active on the mailing lists.
I did an announcement on the "General discussion" forum some days ago but I'll send a PM to those users today.

Done. Waiting for answers...
I contacted the Italian admin. He told me they have only two users with @openoffice.org addresses and that he will contact them.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby orcmid » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:07 pm

acknak wrote:
I don't know what email address is being referred to.

forumadminen@openoffice.org

It's not a forwarded address (as far as I know) so it may not be affected. I assume @ooo will continue to be used, or does everything switch to an apache domain?


Is it a list or an e-mail address (or does it end up in the Forum-based messaging)?


The @*.openoffice.org e-mail and list addresses are going away. A small number may be preserved by ASF because of their global usage, such as securityteam @openoffice.org. If you know of such addresses that are important to preserve, they need to be reported to ooo-dev. One way is to add them to the OOOUSER wiki pages about e-mail [non-]migration. Check here about lists: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Mailing+lists. Add information here concerning @*.openoffice.org addresses that need to be preserved in some way: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OpenOffice.org+Email+Forwarder. This last is obsolete and needs updating to reflect the fact that there is no migration, even temporarily, to ASF hosting.

In contrast, many http://*.openoffice.org addresses are being preserved. The Forums, the OpenOffice.wiki, and the static web pages are migrated or in the process of migration, including for NL sections of the site.

In some cases (such as the bug reports) the service is moved to an apache.org domain, because it is about the further development of what will become the Apache descendant of OpenOffice.org, even though all of the old bug reports are also retained and resolutions are still being worked on.

Some sections of the web sites will be refactored, with division between apache.org web material that is predominately development-facing and openoffice.org material that is predominately user-facing. (There are some cross-over cases to be figured out.) There will be other splits between the main OpenOffice.org development and further development. Downloads of older versions and their supporting materials will not move to apache.org. Downloads of the Apache-based releases, the source-code base, etc., will be from apache.org. Also, some material that Oracle does not have the rights to will need to be remove/replaced to satisfy ASF license-incompatibility conflicts.

Much of this will be worked out in the course of the incubation period for the Apache OOo podling. There will be ongoing repaving of the http://*.openoffice.org web properties as that is worked out and remnants of Oracle hosting are removed.

Hmm, thanks for asking. This could be the basis for another blog post. But first things first ... .
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:33 am

orcmid wrote:Is it a list or an e-mail address (or does it end up in the Forum-based messaging)?

In fact, it's forumadminen<at>user.services.openoffice.org, see this topic for example. But good question, I don't know how this address is handled. Will check with Drew.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby acknak » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:11 am

I don't know of any reason to preserve the specific address. The only purpose it serves is as a communication channel that's separate from the forum: to contact the admins in case someone has trouble getting registered, or for "private" feedback if there is some gripe with the forum operation/moderation.

It could be any address, as long as we change it in the forum info.

Of course, we have to re-connect the new address to the forum again. I have no idea how Terry did that.
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Re: Goodbye yellow-brick@openoffice.org

Postby RGB » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:01 am

The @openoffice.org forwarding service will close on March 15th:

[AOO Blog]Retirement of legacy openoffice.org email forwarding service
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