3.3 spellcheck default template fails on right-click

[Bitbucket]

"Corner Case 2" was supposed to be "corrected" in 3.3
It has not been corrected. At least not in any of the computers I've installed OO 3.3 during the last few months, and most certainly when using a download obtained the first week of Sept 2011 from the OOo site.

On XP I can cause file changes to correct this problem. However, Win 7 Pro I cannot make said file changes because of extreme measures taken by MS to prevent anybody from messing with "protected" files. Guess what? MS has decided OO templates are "read-only" in Win 7 Pro. How nice of Mr. Bill.

This spell-check isssue is a multi-year on-going problem wherein right-click to create a new document does not "pre-check" the default language, (remains "empty" or is set to "German"). This is the case even though during install only English US is selected and all other dictionaries were unchecked. This "right-click feature" then prevents spell check from operating in that document.

As of 9-11-2011, the installation default document templates for use of US English dictionaries continues to have NO default language (or German) selected.
One still must go through various and sundry gyrations to create a corrected template which we are then expected to save (as defined in "Corner Case 2" tutorial).
This is extremely difficult to accomplish in Win 7 Pro, because the adminstrator does not automatically get over-write permissions to path
C:\Users\All Users\Templates
nor to
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates
meaning there are no permissions to file/saveas within OO to the templates folder,
and no way to copy a new template file over the installed template file!

Gates is winning in abstentia.

1. Why are innapropriate templates being sent with the English language pack?

2. Is it possible that 3.3 cannot modify the templates during install, so the "no language selected" templates cannot be modified to accomplish the desired defaults during installation?

3. Best-process file creation is to navigate to the folder of storage, create and name the document, then launch. This assures proper file placement on every subsequent CTRL/S. Menu-stepped unnamed file creation that then requires the operator to File-Save-As and name during the rush to close, tends to cause users to not bother saving at all during initial document creation and development. The result ususally is a horrible stacking of unnamed documents in the root folder My Documents.

For OO to recommend initiating documents via the New menu command is to recommend poor computer habits. Sure, that technique "works", but Microsoft Office clearly "works better", and frankly is starting to demonstrate why it's worth the money to pay for the feature of right-click new document and being able to spell check that document.

It sure would be nice if the installed templates were correct when they get installed.

[Hagar Delest]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I agree with you but you're barking the wrong tree. We are just users like you here, no developer. You can file a report if you want to contact them: [Tutorial] Reporting bugs or suggestions.

[Bill]

On XP I can cause file changes to correct this problem. However, Win 7 Pro I cannot make said file changes because of extreme measures taken by MS to prevent anybody from messing with "protected" files. Guess what? MS has decided OO templates are "read-only" in Win 7 Pro. How nice of Mr. Bill.

This spell-check isssue is a multi-year on-going problem wherein right-click to create a new document does not "pre-check" the default language, (remains "empty" or is set to "German"). This is the case even though during install only English US is selected and all other dictionaries were unchecked. This "right-click feature" then prevents spell check from operating in that document.

As of 9-11-2011, the installation default document templates for use of US English dictionaries continues to have NO default language (or German) selected.
One still must go through various and sundry gyrations to create a corrected template which we are then expected to save (as defined in "Corner Case 2" tutorial).
This is extremely difficult to accomplish in Win 7 Pro, because the adminstrator does not automatically get over-write permissions to path
C:\Users\All Users\Templates
nor to
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates
meaning there are no permissions to file/saveas within OO to the templates folder,
and no way to copy a new template file over the installed template file!

In Vista, it's easy to modify the "template" in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates. Just right-click OOo Writer on the Start Menu and select "Run as administrator". I can then open the soffice.odt "template" file, change the language setting and save the file. Doesn't that work in Win 7 Pro? If so, maybe the tutorial should be changed to specify how to obtain administrator rights to the "templates" in Vista and Win 7.

[Bitbucket]

I'm "barking" where the action is among the dogs. Future searches made by unsuspecting users will find workarounds that all lead to the statement "Fixed in 3.3", which will be misleading to users who do not know how to work around the extreme security of Win 7 Pro. I'm posting here as much for the benefit of those stumbling after us along this same trail. Possibly, eventually, somebody with some clout will cause the "FIXED, I tell you, it's been FIXED!" statements to be erased until the problem is actually fixed. Meanwhile, for those who find it's still broken, as of 9-12-2011 they now have a recent explanation of what steps to take next. Clearly, after 5 years of struggling with this problem, the "fixers" have yet to understand that the installation architecture/philosophy itself is faulty.


"In Vista, it's easy to modify the template in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates. Just right-click OOo Writer on the Start Menu and select "Run as administrator". I can then open the soffice.odt "template" file, change the language setting and save the file. Doesn't that work in Win 7 Pro? If so, maybe the tutorial should be changed to specify how to obtain administrator rights to the "templates" in Vista and Win 7."

I tried that. Doesn't seem to accomplish what we need in Win 7 Pro. Could be I'm holding my feet wrong.

However, I did get lasting success on Win 7 Pro (which is a far more complicated set of procedures than in XP or Vista).

Essentially, in Win 7 Pro, one cannot edit the (read-only) template files, but one can replace them. Note that the new files suddenly become read-only as well.

First, I unchecked the ControlPanel/Folder Options/View/Show-Hidden-Files-And-Folders while in Administrator mode.
Ya gotta be able to see 'em to be able to click on 'em!

Next I employed the advice in the following link:

http://www.blogsdna.com/2159/how-to-tak ... dows-7.htm

and gained "copy a file" control as an administrator. If you don't take these steps, Win 7 Pro will defeat you at every turn.

Then I navigated to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates (note that without my very first step, Admin cannot even see this path).
Then I renamed the "soffice.*" files to "oldsoffice.*" (that star, for the young-uns, means "all of 'em" - I been doin' computer stuff since '69, so old short-hand dies hard).
Then I right-clicked in any other folder (not the templates folder, wherein despite having "total admin control" you will merely create a read-only file) and created a "soffice.[ext]" (then later one each of the other types) and took the time to check all the hidden spots (including F11) for links to language. Let's see, there's Global, Document, Paragraph, and Word level of languages, so you have to hunt 'em all down and nail 'em to the floor or you are just wasting your time. On the other hand, OOo can spell a German word quoted in a French sentence quoted in an Italian paragraph within a Russian document, so checking English English English and English is not overkill or redundant if all you want is English. If anybody wishes to add the specific places where language has/gets to be selected, please feel free.

Then (finally!) I saved the blank-and-totally-corrected file in the \Templates file as "soffice.[ext]". Repeat these last 4 steps for each template.
You might copy the new files onto removable or network-shared media for backup and/or later access. On other computers, gain as much admin control as you can, then just copy these files into the \templates folder after deleting the installed versions. The installed versions are incorrect anyway, so why keep 'em around?

Once a corrected template file is in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates
and after you test the new template with a right-click in any other random folder, create a junk document, and make obvious spelling errors in that junk document, then you should delete the old template version.

Here are the reasons these steps work when the official "IT'S BEEN FIXED, just do THIS" steps fail:

1. Windows explorer needs to see a default template when it creates an application's new blank document.
2. Win 7 Pro will not let you edit or save (over-write) an existing named template.
3. You can, however (and until Microsoft reads this and "improves" their operating system), delete an unwanted template, then copy/save a new template under the same name.
4. Windows explorer does not seem to care that it's no longer reading the old template, and will begrudge you what you want.

[Bill]

I'm "barking" where the action is among the dogs. Future searches made by unsuspecting users will find workarounds that all lead to the statement "Fixed in 3.3", which will be misleading to users who do not know how to work around the extreme security of Win 7 Pro. I'm posting here as much for the benefit of those stumbling after us along this same trail. Possibly, eventually, somebody with some clout will cause the "FIXED, I tell you, it's been FIXED!" statements to be erased until the problem is actually fixed. Meanwhile, for those who find it's still broken, as of 9-12-2011 they now have a recent explanation of what steps to take next. Clearly, after 5 years of struggling with this problem, the "fixers" have yet to understand that the installation architecture/philosophy itself is faulty.

The bug HAS been fixed. It states that the Default template wasn't being applied to documents created from the context menu. Prior to OOo 3.3, a new document was simply a copy of the soffice.odt file. Starting with Ooo 3.3, a new document is a copy of the soffice.odt file with the user's Default template applied to the new document. The Default template is NOT the soffice.odt file. The Default template is a template created by the user and set as the Default template.

"In Vista, it's easy to modify the template in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates. Just right-click OOo Writer on the Start Menu and select "Run as administrator". I can then open the soffice.odt "template" file, change the language setting and save the file. Doesn't that work in Win 7 Pro? If so, maybe the tutorial should be changed to specify how to obtain administrator rights to the "templates" in Vista and Win 7."

I tried that. Doesn't seem to accomplish what we need in Win 7 Pro. Could be I'm holding my feet wrong.

However, I did get lasting success on Win 7 Pro (which is a far more complicated set of procedures than in XP or Vista).

Essentially, in Win 7 Pro, one cannot edit the (read-only) template files, but one can replace them. Note that the new files suddenly become read-only as well.

First, I unchecked the ControlPanel/Folder Options/View/Show-Hidden-Files-And-Folders while in Administrator mode.
Ya gotta be able to see 'em to be able to click on 'em!

Next I employed the advice in the following link:

http://www.blogsdna.com/2159/how-to-tak ... dows-7.htm

It states there that in Win 7 you must be the owner of the file before you can modify it. That seems to have changed from Vista. Just changing ownership of the files to the administrators group might be all that needs to be done to be able to edit the files.

...and gained "copy a file" control as an administrator. If you don't take these steps, Win 7 Pro will defeat you at every turn.

Then I navigated to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates (note that without my very first step, Admin cannot even see this path).
Then I renamed the "soffice.*" files to "oldsoffice.*" (that star, for the young-uns, means "all of 'em" - I been doin' computer stuff since '69, so old short-hand dies hard).
Then I right-clicked in any other folder (not the templates folder, wherein despite having "total admin control" you will merely create a read-only file) and created a "soffice.[ext]" (then later one each of the other types) and took the time to check all the hidden spots (including F11) for links to language. Let's see, there's Global, Document, Paragraph, and Word level of languages, so you have to hunt 'em all down and nail 'em to the floor or you are just wasting your time. On the other hand, OOo can spell a German word quoted in a French sentence quoted in an Italian paragraph within a Russian document, so checking English English English and English is not overkill or redundant if all you want is English. If anybody wishes to add the specific places where language has/gets to be selected, please feel free.

Then (finally!) I saved the blank-and-totally-corrected file in the \Templates file as "soffice.[ext]". Repeat these last 4 steps for each template.
You might copy the new files onto removable or network-shared media for backup and/or later access. On other computers, gain as much admin control as you can, then just copy these files into the \templates folder after deleting the installed versions. The installed versions are incorrect anyway, so why keep 'em around?

Once a corrected template file is in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates
and after you test the new template with a right-click in any other random folder, create a junk document, and make obvious spelling errors in that junk document, then you should delete the old template version.

Here are the reasons these steps work when the official "IT'S BEEN FIXED, just do THIS" steps fail:

1. Windows explorer needs to see a default template when it creates an application's new blank document.
2. Win 7 Pro will not let you edit or save (over-write) an existing named template.
3. You can, however (and until Microsoft reads this and "improves" their operating system), delete an unwanted template, then copy/save a new template under the same name.
4. Windows explorer does not seem to care that it's no longer reading the old template, and will begrudge you what you want. :bravo:

You could copy the files in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates to C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Templates. The user can edit those copies at will, and the copies would be used to create new documents for the user.

If you want OOo to change the language settings in the files installed by OOo, then you should file a bug report. I can't find one.

[Bitbucket]

"The Default template is a template created by the user and set as the Default template."

Thanks, BIll. That pretty much sums it up. Even though default templates are provided
during the install, these are not really default templates. And the user is expected to know, but is not told
during installation, that default templates are not the default - except that they will be used by
default unless and until the user makes default templates.

That fits with what I found is necessary to get an All-English Default Template.

The problem is that it is insufficient to trust the install to create an All-English
(or All-AnythingElse) template even though install allows the installer to specify English
(or any other single source) as the only language to be used.
That, apparently, is too much to expect from installation code.

It would have been nice if the users were explicity informed of that situation, but then again,
asking for the developers to change anything, even instructions, requires written request to be submitted.
5 years of people complaining about something doesn't hack it, and until a formal request is submitted...
Oh, wait, a formal request *was* submitted, and some bug was declared "FIXED!" and is not to be further worked
on even though the problem persists; unless, of course, another formal request is submitted asking that the same
problem be fixed. Again.

We have enough governments already who don't listen to their citizens unless a formal request is submitted.
Governments who insist, because they "fixed" *something*, that the problem has gone away.
Which is why users get together to figure things out and develop workarounds,
or whole groups fork (secede from the union) much as is happening here and currently.

A "bug" might have been "fixed". Yeah? So what? The reported problem hasn't been fixed. Certainly not when workarounds
(such as requiring, but not explicitly telling, users to make correct templates to replace the non-template files installed during
well, installation of all things, can you imagine that?)
yes, workarounds, are (despite the bug fix) still required in order for spell check to work when a document is created
in the best-work-mode manner (right-click into desired folder and named-before-building).

Back in 2008, this problem was shucked off by many as AWEP ("A Windows Explorer Problem"). Not so. All it takes is proper
install of proper default templates. One typically expects the installation software to install proper templates, or none at
all and to explain politely that to finish the install, and before attempting to use spell check, that the user must (MUST!)
make his/her own templates. None of that is AWEP. It's an OOops.

I can tell this problem ain't never going to be fixed, because on *principle*, nobody is going to submit a change request,
and by *definition* by OOo's self-contained charter, until somebody submits (pun intended),
nobody is going to address the problem that is still in the code. There is no profit motive to fix the problem. Just bureaucracy.
OOo is becoming laden down with HAC (Hope And Change).

I'm starting to understand why Oracle is washing its hands and good people are jumping ship.

[david123443212000]

I spent ages wondering why the spell check did not work from right click creation method.
the original template did not seem to work.

solution that worked for me
-----------------------------------

i opened open office then created a file from the File, new text document file method
I found i could use the spell check in this file.

i navigated to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Templates
( make sure hidden files are able to be viewed)

and saved old 'soffice.odt' in a folder then saved file created from new text document as 'soffice.odt'

this seems to solve the right click create problem of no spell check on win 7.

Im not saying that this will work for everyone, but could somebody else check this out as a handy workaround on their rig

d.c

[Hagar Delest]

Well, that's exactly what is said in the tutorial quoted in first post, see end of this post.