Firefox 3.0 beta rocks my socks!

[AndrewZ]

I remember when I first started using Mozilla and Firefox (when Firefox was called Firebird or Phoenix). People were raving about tabs. I didn't understand why, but today, I can't surf without them. When I have to use MSIE6, I feel like I am stuck in the 1999---when MapQuest.com was cool!

Now I've been using Firefox 3.0 at work and at home since the first beta (a month or so?). It is great! I am not a "gadget person," I am consistently impressed with Firefox's practical innovation.

My 2 favorite new features in FF 3 are probably:

1.Full page zoom. It zooms graphics and retains settings across pages. The zoom gets a little flaky in the beta with Flash elements, but no big deal.

2. Enhancements to the address bar. I was surprised there was room for innovation here. (I am used to heavily using the address bar. For example, I memorize my favorite URLs instead of using bookmarks.) Now, I can search in the address bar for pages names. Like tabs It has turned from a "what's the point?" to a "Firefox 2.0 feels outdated."

Random thoughts:
Offline support and APNG sounds promising, but they will not deliver much in the short term. Despite the promises, I haven't noticed much difference in performance. I'm still not sure what I think about the tags and bookmark changes.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I started using Opera 5.0 about five years ago because I needed an email client, and Opera had one built in. Tabbed browsing is something I wouldn't want to be without now, but IE7 delivers that now so there is no reason to stay with IE6. Quick Tabs in IE7 is also better than anything Opera currently offers — Speed-Dial is not as useful, though it does help.

Customisability is a huge benefit. I use a lot of extended latin characters so being able to assign any text to a shortcut is great. Opera is better than OpenOffice when it comes to typing.

Opera 9.50 beta also offers APNG support, but has you say, that is still of limited benefit. It won't take off until there are free graphics applications that can create APNG images easily.

I think Opera wins over Firefox for its more stable code and easier installation. No need to download extensions — the features are either built-in or can be added with javascripts and custom buttons and commands. Built in email is still important for me. My email is just another tab in Opera. The default menus have far more features than I need, so I thinned them out, and put a menu button on my Tab bar, turning off the main menus.

Opera 925..png (55.32 KiB) Viewed 15646 times

[AndrewZ]

I've tried Opera from time to time (and I even have it now) but never became engaged. Opera has many technical merits, such as its performance. Maybe the hardest part for me was getting used to the different keyboard shortcuts.

Also, for some strange reason, Flash videos cause a segfault only in Opera, so I cannot watch Youtube, etc. I did 10 minutes of searching and found no solution. Oh well.

Opera 9.50 beta also offers APNG support, but has you say, that is still of limited benefit. It won't take off until there are free graphics applications that can create APNG images easily.

Because MSIE6 is still dominant among users, no publishers will present APNG. Mainstream publishers will wait until about 90% of the web users have APNG support. Besides, Flash is a very strong competitor. For example, most/all GIF banner ads are now Flash.

[ccornell]

Also, for some strange reason, Flash videos cause a segfault only in Opera, so I cannot watch Youtube, etc. I did 10 minutes of searching and found no solution. Oh well.

I've just started having that problem with the latest update of Flash that I installed a couple of days ago (openSUSE 10.2, Opera9.50, and whatever the latest Flash build is... can't remember) Prior to the update, Flash worked perfectly in Opera. Now... segfault. I preferred Opera for Flash because I can easily zoom in and out on the page, and the zoom will also zoom the flash animation, not just the text as in other browsers.

I haven't yet tried the FF3.0 Beta... does the zoom there work like Opera's zoom?

[AndrewZ]

I haven't yet tried the FF3.0 Beta... does the zoom there work like Opera's zoom?

FF3's zoom enlarges everything including standard graphics and Flash animation.

[Hagar Delest]

Just tried FF3 beta 2 and was rather deceived
Even if the new address bar does rock, I couldn't live without my extensions (mainly the Mouse Gestures and the Tab Mix Plus ones). Moreover, when I use the profile manager to try it without touching my default FF profile, it crashes. So I'll wait for the final release.

[AndrewZ]

I had the same extension trouble, but there are two ways to trick FF into loading extensions. One is a configuration entry in FF and the other is a quick edit in the extension's installer file.

[Hagar Delest]

Do you remember the entry in FF ???
I'm struggling to find it again (I had when upgading from 1.5 to 2.0), I'd managed to deactivate the version check but can't find it right now ! I've tried the extensions.checkUpdates key (or something like that) set to false in about:config but no way.

[AndrewZ]

Hagar:

This looks to be what I did:
http://articles.bluishcoder.co.nz/artic ... -checking/

[Hagar Delest]

Ah, thanks ! the key was extensions.checkCompatibility !
Writing this post with the Beta 2. Still some vital extensions deactivated (Clippings that I use all the time on forums) but at least the mouse gestures work.

[DeShock]

Hagar:

This looks to be what I did:
http://articles.bluishcoder.co.nz/artic ... -checking/

Thanks. I was still hacking the install file to change the version compatibility reference. This is much simpler.

[foxcole]

I still haven't ferreted out which extension is crashing FF3 for me. Maybe it's one that has now become a FF feature... but if so, I haven't found it yet. I'm extremely fond of my extensions and themes. One of my favorite pastimes is trolling for new ones that will make my life easier and my Internet experience richer.

I knew about the modifications that AndrewZ suggested, but there is some extension that simply is not compatible and crashes the browser, a code conflict rather than a simple version-number limit. I spent half a day on it (well, at least three hours) when the FF3 beta was first released. Haven't gone back to it since. I don't want to wait for the official release because I might be able to find something important either for the extension author or FF devs, but I just haven't had the energy to go digging into it again. (I use a lot of extensions; that's why it's taken so long. Adding them back in one at a time takes forever.)

On the other hand, several add-ons have been updated in the meantime so maybe the problem has already been identified. I should try it out again.

[AndrewZ]

I have not had much crashing except at an answers.yahoo.com page which crashes consistently. I only have the DOM Inspector active now.

[floris v]

What I found most annoying was that the Back button didn't work for me.

[DrewJensen]

I have not had one single crash with FF 3 Beta 2 - but then I have been a nice boy and not forced it to use any extensions that did not specifically support version 3. Which means the only thing that I have installed so far is the DOM Inspecter 1.92b

[AndrewZ]

Lately I have had some crashes, but it could be my fault with extensions as Drew alluded to. Also, after a lot of annoying errors from Blogger.com, I found that Blogger.com is allergic to Firefox 3.0b2. Overall, I still am happy. I look forward to the final release and for the extensions to catch up.

[Weatherlawyer]

Also, for some strange reason, Flash videos cause a segfault only in Opera, so I cannot watch Youtube, etc. I did 10 minutes of searching and found no solution. Oh well.

I've just started having that problem with the latest update of Flash that I installed a couple of days ago (openSUSE 10.2, Opera9.50, and whatever the latest Flash build is... can't remember) Prior to the update, Flash worked perfectly in Opera. Now... segfault. I preferred Opera for Flash because I can easily zoom in and out on the page, and the zoom will also zoom the flash animation, not just the text as in other browsers.

I haven't yet tried the FF3.0 Beta... does the zoom there work like Opera's zoom?

Opera is best for viewing science stuff but I do most of my surfing in Firefox mainly because I settled into it before Opera. That ability to handle images it has is crucial.

Maybe Ffx 3 has caught up with the Opus Opertimus, but it ain't going to replace it for me. And I don't intend to try it until the neo-geeks have had some feedback from those of us with reality cheques.


Here is what the wiki says about the flash killer:

"APNG is an extension of the [PNG][pngspec] format, adding support for animated images. It is intended to be a replacement for simple animated images that have traditionally used the [GIF][gifspec] format, while adding support for 24-bit images and 8-bit transparency. APNG is a simpler alternative to MNG, providing a spec suitable for the most common usage of animated images on the Internet.

APNG is backwards-compatible with PNG; any PNG decoder should be able to ignore the APNG-specific chunks and display a single image."

I can't wait to get the open source kit to smash flash splash when the alternative goes mainstream. It is hard to realise the feckwits who use flash on their sites without a care in the world will be a filter from the past when it is done to a turn.

WooHoo!

[AndrewZ]

Here is what the wiki says about the flash killer:

As nice as that would be, APNG won't kill Flash until it has a wide adoption---in other words, until MSIE supports it. And MSIE won't because MS wants everyone using Silverlight, the actual Flash killer. Have you been to microsoft.com lately? Many pages are pushing Silverlight through intrusive in-page popups.

MSIE won't even support basic CSS standards in MSIE8. I didn't realize how annoying this is until recently when I tried to develop a certain kind of wide-use web site template.

[acknak]

MSIE won't even support basic CSS standards in MSIE8.

I had heard different. What makes you say that?

[AndrewZ]

MSIE won't even support basic CSS standards in MSIE8.

I had heard different. What makes you say that?

To put MSIE8 into standards mode, each individual web page has to have a special tag. That's not web standards.
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/ ... ibile.html
http://developers.slashdot.org/article. ... 23/1740228

Until who knows when, there's various problems like the box model bug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_E ... _support_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_E ... _model_bug

[Hagar Delest]

For information, Beta 3 has just been released: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html. I'm downloading it right now.

Edit: Had to switch back to the beta 2. Impossible to run it. Too much instable with weird behavior (back/forward buttons that multiply in the toolbar

[AndrewZ]

I have been using FF3b3 since yesterday on Windows and Linux. I haven't noticed any problems, but I mostly use the keyboard shortcuts for forward and back.

Actually the only differences I noticed since FF3b2:
1. The new theme in Windows XP
2. The order of search results in the URL area has been reset. This seems to happen every time a new beta comes out. Oh well.

Hagar de l'Est: Do you think you have a problem with an extension? You told FF to disable checking compatibility of extensions?

[Hagar Delest]

Yes, updates have been deactivated.
But I suspect the All in One Sidebar to mess the profile. OK, you've convinced me, I'll try again with no extension at all to check.

[Hagar Delest]

No luck. Tried with both the French and US packages. Blank new profiles, I just put 'OUCV' in the search field, click on the link to the site and FF disappears .

[floris v]

Ladies don't read this

I'm not even trying any more. None of the dictionaries I use are compatible with FF 3.0, or should I say that FF 3.0 isn't compatible with the extensions? In the first beta the back button was disabled, in the second, something else didn't work out as I wanted (can't remember what). It rocks my socks? Better say it sucks @$$

[Hagar Delest]

None of the dictionaries I use are compatible with FF 3.0, or should I say that FF 3.0 isn't compatible with the extensions?

I don't use the extensions for dictionaries, I install the files directly (in fact, they point to the OOo files under Linux). Under FF3 Beta 2, I see the red waves under mistakes but when I right click, I don't have any suggestion !

[foxcole]

None of the dictionaries I use are compatible with FF 3.0, or should I say that FF 3.0 isn't compatible with the extensions?

Most extensions can easily be updated to at least be recognized by a new FF version, whether or not they can actually run. It's a matter of changing a version number in the file header, and there are tools for that.

In the first beta the back button was disabled, in the second, something else didn't work out as I wanted (can't remember what). It rocks my socks? Better say it sucks @$$

Well, it is only a beta. The only purpose of a beta is to test and discover where the glitches are. I wouldn't expect it to be perfect, but you can at least get some idea of how it's going to work and what it's going to be able to do.

[floris v]

True, Foxcole, but I'd still expect the glitches in the new code and not affecting the old. I love modular programming - that is, in my understanding, that each part of the program is as separate as it can be. But software developers everywhere sin against that paradigm. I even have an MS game that changes desktop icons on closure. I ask you.

[Zevach]

After trying v.3 b3 for several hours, I uninstalled it, uninstalled v. 2, deleted the profiles, cleaned the Registry, and installed again 3 b3. it is very good, definitely faster than v. 2. The extensions will come. Flashgot is the only one really important to me. I use it to download with Interned Download Manager without its extension, which prevents 3 from running.

[foxcole]

The extensions will come.

That's very true. It's up to the extension developers to update their extensions to work with Firefox, not the other way around.

All the extensions I use are updated within a couple of weeks of final release of a new FF version. I'm sure they wait for the final release because they know it's stable.