[Dropped] Name of document given name of template [can't fix]

[KitchM]

In Writer, I noticed that the Preferences, General tab in LO shows the name of the document correctly at the top and then template name correctly below, but on the Description tap the name is the name of the template.

Does OO also have this huge flaw?

Thanks.

[FJCC]

I don't know how the menus are structured in LibreOffice. The menu that seems to lead to a similar dialog is OpenOffice is File -> Properties. The General tab in that dialog shows the document name in the title bar of the dialog and in a box just below the dialog tabs. The template name is shown near the bottom of the General tab. The Description tab shows the document's name only in the title bar of the dialog. There are boxes on that tab for Title, Subject, Keywords, and Comments, but those are to be filled in by the user. So, it seems to be quite a different dialog.

[Hagar Delest]

OP is talking about the same dialog. It's not Preferences at all but Properties indeed.

KitchM, it's not because it doesn't work as you like to that it's a flaw. It works the same in MS Word BTW.
The field content is the one from the template, that's all. Set it blank in the template and you won't have the title in the documents.
There is no point having this field being automatically filled in by the application. I guess you would like the file name to be used. However, you usually work on different versions of a document and you want the title to remain the final title, not the file name with the initials or dates added when revisions are made.

Please add [Solved] at the beginning of the title in your first post (top of the topic) with the ✎ button if your issue has been fixed.

NB: you should update your forum signature to tell what OS and what version of LO you're using.

[KitchM]

Hagar, the problem appears to be that the search engines have particular standards and the application is not following those standards, IMHO. For instance, Xapian looks for document title and that is being shown as the template rather than the title. Search programs, such as Recoll, use that and then come back with incorrect information.

I realize that I do not know for sure, but when the program itself, such as Writer, lists the wrong information in the expected field, then it seems pretty damning evidence to me. What about you?

(BTW, I would go so far as to say that anything Microsoft is most certainly no standard that anyone at any time should ever reference as proof of anything, so let's not go there.)

[cwolan]

As regards LibreOffice:
On the one hand, there is Bug 107513 ("Template title and comments shouldnt be used in document") with the status RESOLVED WORKSFORME, but on the other hand in Bug 149859 ("Do not add template name to title at document properties") one reads in Comment #6: Adding the template name to the document title is nonsense. Let's remove it.
⠀⠀

Does OO also have this huge flaw?

Yes it has.

[KitchM]

Thank you. I could not believe I was the only one that saw what appeared to be so obviously mislabeled. There appears to be an internal programming error that reads the wrong information for a given field. What is strange is that the un-named field at the top of the General tab clearly shows the correct name, but it is not carried over to the next tab. I cannot even assume to understand why that would ever be that way.

[Hagar Delest]

Well, I made some tests with LO 25.2 on my Mint machine and once you blank the title field, it does not propagate to the documents made from that tempalte.
I also created a new template: nothing in the title field. I created a document from it, no title either.

[Lupp]

I wouldn't read the complete thread thoroughly, but simply report my related experiences under Win10.
1. The terms FileName and Title are used in a confusing way.:
The FileName is shown as the title of the FRAME ("window") in which the currently active document is presented. May be "Untitled" followed by a number if the document was not yet saved to a file.
This FrameTitle is also used as the default FileName if you "Sav As...". (In addition a default folder will be assumed. It does NOT depend on the template.)
2. Of course, the FileName will -in most cases- not be the title of your "book" which will have some "meaning" beyond the names in the file system of the OS.
3. Therefore the document has an additional property named Title editable via >File>Properties...>>Description>Title.
4. Unfortunately templates get their own TemplateName (not the file name, but the name used in the template manager) set as the default. YOU CAN DELETE IT from the template editing it called from the TemplateManager.
5. If the template actually has set a "Title" in this sense, it is also used as the default title under Descritpion for the new documents based on this template. You can edited it as already described - NOT dependening on the FileName.
6. If I myself export a document to a pdf representation and let it display by my specific pdf-reader it isn't shown tabbed with the FileName, but with the internally stored "Description Title". I have no experiences with different pdf readers.
7. All this is (as far as I remember) the same in LibO and in AOO ("heritage"). It is well considered and reasonable except for the confusion in terms.

Z If you find a wrong interpretation of experiences above, please post a hint.

[KitchM]

Thank you both. It is good to see that there are possible work-arounds. However, it may be necessary to make at least a change in the defaults so that the wrong information is not going outward into the system as a whole.

[Lupp]

@KitchM:
1. Your posts tell me that you are using LibreOffice, but you don't give the version.
Pleasae update you "signature".

2. You claim that "wrong information is ... going outward into the system as a whole".
What would be the correct information in your opinion?
What do you mean by "outward into the system"?
What are your arguments against my claim that the issue is'nt "wrong information", but a case of confused terminology?

[KitchM]

In the introductory post I wrote:

Code: Select all

 noticed that the Preferences, General tab in LO shows the name of the document correctly at the top and then template name correctly below, but on the Description tap the name is the name of the template.

Please feel free to check this out on your own system.

FYI, a program that works within an operating system uses a system-wide standardized mechanism to share information. One of these is the metadata that is used by other programs. It is clear that Writer is not creating accurate metadata.

The first entry in the general tab is correct as the name of the document, but the name under the description tab is not correct. This incorrect information is evidently being sent out thru the metadata details.

The metadata is what is created by the Writer programming. It is not created by the computer system. Therefore, it is self-evident that the thing that is 'transmitting' incorrect information is Writer. In particular, the metadata seems to indicate that the document name is the template name, which is obviously and self-evidently incorrect.

[Lupp]

Some of the entries under >File>Properties...>>General are neither generated by LibreOffice nor read from the file, but are metadata provided by the OperatingSystem of your computer. THERE you can edit/change the filename or move/copy the file to a different location without asking LibO or its user for consent. The task can't be delegated down, but upwards to network software. Nowadays you need a correct URL to describe a file location unambiguously.

There is ONE item of "absolute metadata" per OpenDocument file which is stored in the file itself and readable for "the system" even if the file is compressed and/or encrypted. That's the mime type information.

A win system keeps a related "meta" shown as the filename's extension which is used to determine the application to call "on doubleclick". The assignment is stored in the "Registry". Once called, LibreOffice will ignore that extension and use the mime information to decide about the "model" type. Other OSes may ignore the extension anyway and base the decision what application to call directly on the mime information read from the file.

What's shown under >File>Properties...>>Description>>Title isn't in any way related to the URL. It's the user's duty to make it contain what they want. If they think the title of the template is a bad default, they can remove the string from the template. If they have more than one "titled line of work" they can use copies of the (functionally) same template with different preset titles. In any case the user is responsible for the results.

Generally we need to understand that the distinction between "data" and "metadata" depends heavily on the context and the point of view -- and that there is established "terminology" of very little reliability next to everywhere.

As of 2025-12-11:
Unfortunately the article about "metadata" in the en.wikipedia isn't good. (Their QA also thinks so.)
The respective article in the German wikipedia is much better: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadaten

[KitchM]

Well, that was a lot of information which I am not convinced applies to my situation. If it does, I cannot see how since the relationship to the original post's details seems to be lost.

Further, a URL has never been part of a word processing program's function except in the use of a hyperlink. So I do not understand the reference in my situation.

The bottom line is that we must start from the most fundamental point, which in this case is clearly the fact that the program itself is not properly listing the expected information. If the field titles are incorrect, but the information is, then there is a problem. If the field titles are correct, but the information is wrong, then there is still a problem. Either way, it needs to be fixed. Until this is done, the connection between the program and the system as a whole is not needing to be addressed as there is no proof that the program is actually disseminating correct information in the first place. So let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Finally, let me point out to everyone that the idea that a user would in anyway wish to have a program that does not properly automate the function of putting text on paper and instead forces the user to jump thru hoops is a waste of programming effort.

[Lupp]

Obviously there is no common basis for our exchange.
Just very short my central point of view again:
You call an information wrong,
but you don't clearly tell what you would expect as the correct information.

What I tried to make clear:
1. What you call wrong information about "Name of document" is actually listed as "Title" under the Description tab, and is completely different from the extended FileName shown without a label under the General tab.
2. The document can't know a FileName because that "metadata" is given/changed on the system level.
Only as long as the document is "active" (opened) it can ask the system for that name.

[KitchM]

Wrong, incorrect, whatever. FileName, file name, whatever. Extended, nonextended, normal, whatever. Just unnecessary confusion. Pick a term, define it and stick with it. I'll be glad to play along.

The first item under the General tab is the correct and complete 'file name'. Obviously the program knows this.

Under the Description tab, the first field is named 'Title'. The actual title is the file name without the extension. This is something the user labels the document at the top of the article.

However, the program, and nothing else, has decided to place the name of the template as the title. I cannot imagine anyone anywhere at any time thinking that such is correct information. This is particularly important to understand in light of the field under the General tab where the template is already named, and the field is named 'Template'!

If the program does not recognize the title, then it should ask the user, and not just assume incorrect information. First of all, a template is never, ever assumed to be the name of any document of any kind in any word processor. Second, the user must never be forced to do things they do not naturally wish to do. The purpose of any software program is to automate the process for the benefit of the user and not the programmer.

Finally, as I understand it, metadata is formulated from the file information, which is created by the file-creating program; in this case Writer. Somewhere there is a beginning, and that is at the file creation process.

[robleyd]

How to report bugs in LibreOffice.

[KitchM]

Yeah, like they care. There was a hope that OO would be better, but it appears to be a problem in the basic programming. Aw well....

[Hagar Delest]

Yeah, like they care. There was a hope that OO would be better

AOO is long dead! Only point using it is its stability for those who find LO not stable enough.

[Lupp]

AOO is long dead!

Some think so. But that's not the point here.
That file name and "Title" of a document are different things is simply a fact, and the actual behaviour of AOO/LibO insofar is reasonable and intentional. The only problem is the ambiguous use of terms (words), but as soon as such an issue is established you can't fix it without breaking everything based on the previous state. Humans can learn about this problem, and tolerate the mess then.

[Hagar Delest]

My point was that OP seems to think that AOO devs would care more than LO devs (that's the way I understand the post). It makes me smile, that's all.
The "issue" has been explained, there is a way to workaround it, period. Ranting about so-called "basic programming" does not add any value. If it's that basic, then just propose the proper code for it.
If I were a dev, I would indeed not care at all about such minor issue and hope humans to put up with this kind of issue indeed.
As of AOO, I've been a fervent supporter for many years but it has lost the battle IMHO. When I check the release notes of each AOO version, it's so poor that I can't see how the ASF doesn't pull the plug.
But well, I'll leave this topic here, it has become a loss of time.

[KitchM]

I agree. I don't think that any programmer on the project really cares.

The sad part of this flawed programming is that it messes up other software in the system. When the user is attempting to search for files, it appears that the incorrect data is confusing search engines that tend to look into metadata. When that is incorrectly labeled, the whole process of searching breaks down.

But thanks anyway. Appreciate the ideas. I'm sure someone will come along eventually and create a good office suite for Linux. In the mean time, all the files I created with this stuff are going to be tough to find and convert.