[Solved] Insert Tab before footnote text

[CannedMan]

Bilde_2024-05-26_202628148.png (15.49 KiB) Viewed 1341 times

In this window one can enter what character(s) one wants to follow the footnote number/symbol. The closest thing I have found to a tab, is using an em space (U+2003), but of course, that will not align the text. Is there any way to insert a tabulated space in front of the text such that I can format the footnote style with a tab and get all my footnotes to have a first-line indentation, but the footnote number to be flush with the left margin?

[JeJe]

You can change the "Footnote" paragraph style's first lIne indent.

[CannedMan]

You can change the "Footnote" paragraph style's first lIne indent.

Yes, but when doing this, the footnote number gets indented as well. Added remark to my initial question to clarify.

[JeJe]

Why doesn't a chosen number of spaces giving the same width as a tab suffice?

[CannedMan]

Why doesn't a chosen number of spaces giving the same width as a tab suffice?

Because numbers are proportional (in any well typeset text): 0 is wider than 1. In addition, footnotes tend to get numerous, so a fixed number of spaces means that 1–9 is narrower than 10–99 and so forth. So I reiterate: How do I set a tabulated space after the footnote numbers, to assure that my footnote numbers are aligned flush left and my footnote text has a first-line indentation?

Example of proportional-width numbers and footnotes

Bilde_2024-05-26_211829404.png (6.5 KiB) Viewed 1295 times

[JeJe]

You can insert a tab at the start of the paragraph in the footnote.

[RoryOF]

It is possible to insert a tab as the first character of the footnote text. I have not found any way to automatically indent the first line of a footnote.

[RoryOF]

Some fonts have non-proportional numbers, and some have both. I'll have to check information on which later, but am going offline now for the night.

[JeJe]

I can do it with the following macro which adds two tabs - see attached document.

Pasting tabs into the dialog doesn't work.

Code: Select all

thiscomponent.getfootnotesettings.suffix = chr(9) & chr(9) 

Edit: And setting the desired tab in the "footnote" style

[CannedMan]

You can insert a tab at the start of the paragraph in the footnote.

I could do that, but that would mean I would have to manually add that to every single footnote. Just like you should not manually add a tab at the beginning of every paragraph to achieve indentation – it is bad practice and should be set by changing the paragraph style used – so one should not do this to footnotes. If it can be automated, it probably should and could.

Some fonts have non-proportional numbers, and some have both. I'll have to check information on which later, but am going offline now for the night.

Yes, not all have proportional numbers as an option; I generally avoid those for text intended for printing.

[CannedMan]

I actually just figured it out!

Footnotes with tabulated indentation automated

Bilde_2024-05-26_224506793.png (30.13 KiB) Viewed 1128 times

All I had to do was escape the character by typing \t.

[RoryOF]

Bringhurst, in his work on typography, says that often a font will provide both proportional and non-proportional numbers, but does not mention any specific font names in which this is the case.

The examples of footnotes given in the Chicago Manual of Style mostly indent the footnote number, allowing the footnote text flow after that indented number. I checked several other works on typography, finding that footnotes receive little mention.

[CannedMan]

Bringhurst, in his work on typography, says that often a font will provide both proportional and non-proportional numbers, but does not mention any specific font names in which this is the case.

The examples of footnotes given in the Chicago Manual of Style mostly indent the footnote number, allowing the footnote text flow after that indented number. I checked several other works on typography, finding that footnotes receive little mention.

Indeed, that is the same with me as well. I have a copy of Bringhurst (v. 4.3). Felici (James Felici (2012): The Complete Manual of Typography: A Guide to Set Perfect Type, Second Edition, Adobe Press) has several entries:

Footnotes are generally assigned first-line indents identical to those in the main text. The indents prevent long passages of footnotes from looking too gray and make it easier for the reader to jump quickly to the correct note.
―Felici 2012: 232

He continues, though:

Footnotes indicated by numerals or symbols can also be set with hanging indents, leaving the numerals or symbols hanging to the left and all the footnote lines indented by the same amount. Care has to be taken to keep the text alignment consistent when footnote numbers on the same page go from one digit to two.
―Loc. cit.

As for footnote symbols other than numbers, which he specifically states are required in works ‘whose footnotes are apt to be cited in the bibliographies of others’ (op. cit. 233), he provides the list of the traditional footnote symbols, the final of which I was not aware of (which also explains why most decent fonts still include that symbol): *, † (U+2022), ‡ (U+2023), § and ¶ (U+b6). He does not recommend the final two, as they commonly can not be superscripted.

As for the positioning of the footnote anchor in the footnote, he recommends a superscript number set flush against the footnote text (loc. cit.), though I have found that rare in my literature. In some historical works, footnotes can run quite long, and being able to set those with a good medium weight font otherwise formatted as the body text, means that if the body text is formatted with first-line indentation, it makes more sense to have the footnote number against the left margin and the footnote text with the same first-line indentation as the body text, as that will accomplish both things: Make it easier to identify the beginning of a new footnote in the case of multi-paragraph footnotes, and achieve the desired same-width indentation of the first line as with the body text.

[CannedMan]

As for the positioning of the footnote anchor in the footnote, he recommends a superscript number set flush against the footnote text (loc. cit.), though I have found that rare in my literature. In some historical works, footnotes can run quite long, and being able to set those with a good medium weight font otherwise formatted as the body text, means that if the body text is formatted with first-line indentation, it makes more sense to have the footnote number against the left margin and the footnote text with the same first-line indentation as the body text, as that will accomplish both things: Make it easier to identify the beginning of a new footnote in the case of multi-paragraph footnotes, and achieve the desired same-width indentation of the first line as with the body text.

Interesting! I just checked Bringhurst, and he contradicts Felici on the style of the footnote number in the footnote:

4.3.3 Use superscripts in the text but full-size numbers in the notes themselves
In the main text, superscript numbers are used to indicate notes because superscript numbers minimize interruption. The are typographic asides: small because that is an expression of their relative importance, and raised for two reasons: to keep them out of the flow of the main text, and to make them easier to find. In the note itself, the number is not an aside but a target. The number in the note should therefore be full size.¹
  To make them easy to find, the numbers of the footnotes or endnotes can be hung to the left […]. Punctuation, apart from empty space, is not normally needed between the number and the text of the note.

¹ This footnote is flagged by a superscript in the text, but the note itself is flagged by an outdented figure [it is set outside the left margin, leaving the footnote text flush against the left margin, impossible here on the forum], set in the same size as the text of the note. The main text here is 10/12 × 21; this note is 8/11 and a different cut (a so-called caption font).

And here is a little something that demonstrates why I so enjoy reading Bringhurst:

The screen, in other words, is a reading environment even more fugitive than the newspaper. Intricate, long sentences full of unfamiliar words or names stand little chance. At text size, subtle and delicate letterforms stand little chance as well. Superscripts and subscripts, footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes, and many other literate accessories are difficult to see. They also interfere with the essential illusion (it is an illusion) that reading on-screen increases one’s speed. If the links and jumps of hypertext replace conventional notes, all the subtexts can be the same size, and readers are at liberty to skip from text to text like children switching channels on ᴛ ᴠ.

[RoryOF]

When there are no explicit rules, some things become matters of personal choice. My preference is for the number in the footnote to be left aligned and within the overall text block; the body of the footnote I set in a slightly smaller type (often 9 pt, with document body text in 10.5 pt.) as attached example.

Your choices may differ - they are not better or worse than any others, unless you re setting to a strict set of rules which leave no personal choice.

Footnote.jpg (82.29 KiB) Viewed 613 times

[CannedMan]

When there are no explicit rules, some things become matters of personal choice. My preference is for the number in the footnote to be left aligned and within the overall text block; the body of the footnote I set in a slightly smaller type (often 9 pt, with document body text in 10.5 pt.) as attached example.

Your choices may differ - they are not better or worse than any others, unless you re setting to a strict set of rules which leave no personal choice.

Footnote.jpg

I do not disagree with that. I do find it interesting to read what opinions professionals have, though. These opinions do not come from nowhere and can be enlightening. Given the kind of text you share, I suspect multi-paragraph footnotes are highly unlikely, thus some of the needs I addressed would not arise, and thus your chosen method will serve you and the text well.

[RoryOF]

In my writings, some fiction, some academic, I have evolved a strategy. I use footnotes only to explain something on the page, usually a single sentence translation of a sentence in another language. Everything else is an endnote, sometimes at chapter end, sometimes at document end. Any endnote of great length I divide - a brief explanation as the note, then a reference to an appendix for the full argument.

[CannedMan]

In my writings, some fiction, some academic, I have evolved a strategy. I use footnotes only to explain something on the page, usually a single sentence translation of a sentence in another language. Everything else is an endnote, sometimes at chapter end, sometimes at document end. Any endnote of great length I divide - a brief explanation as the note, then a reference to an appendix for the full argument.

It is a sound strategy and I understand the reason for it. When reading historical works, though, I personally much prefer to have everything on the same page, even if that means the author has to fill half the page with the explanatory footnote. There are differences between the various disciplines, and in my humble opinion: as long as you are able to communicate efficiently to your target audience, you are probably doing it right.