Log of moderation actions; Use of singular They/Them/Their

[Lupp]

In
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=107048#p520790
there apear to me two examples of repeatable situations where I wouldn't like to find the attempted way to be the next standard. They both occur in the same piece of (framed there, italic here) content:
Edit: Split from [Solved] Counting occurrence of specific character in cell because that topic is solved thus morphingstar
needs their own topic

1. Editing of a user's post by an entitled person (administrator) not naming himself(f/m) ("them"?).
2. Usage of plural pronouns ("they" in this case) for a single person as an "emergency exit" from the "gendering issue".

Concerning the first issue a valid solution is obvious. If the way to identify oneself should be precisely standardized is of minor weight then.

Much more problematic -meanwile for all the languages miserable due to their "grammatic gender"- is the second issue.
I'm not a native speaker of any English and therefore I should't suggest a solution beyond my own usage of "he(f/m)" (and similar).
Nonetheless, I like English in a sense, and I highly estimate the existence of a de-facto "Lingua Franca" for most of the world. I'm also satisfied with English doing that hard duty.
Therefore I object against joining a very bad practice. To suffer the slings and arrows (leading to harsh criticism sometimes) of outrageous quarrels is better than to take unsuitable arms which may hurt oneself distorting the language.
Let's be patient insofar.

Edit: Changed subject, was Two doubtable ideas in one place  -- MrProgrammer, forum moderator

[keme]

A mod/admin who alters another user's posting in structure (e.g for better tabular views, or splitting to a new topic) or content (e.g. removing expletives or personal attacks) should of course identify themself, describe what was done and explain why.

The use of singular they is established in the English language through more than 500 years, albeit at times criticized. (See subsection 2.b in the linked dictionary article.) Whether my usage in the previous paragraph is within the norm, I am not sure.

[RoryOF]

Another way to overcome the gender issue is to use the longer form, such as "this User", or use the forum name. such as "what Fred_Flintstone asks".

[Hagar Delest]

+1 for using the user name, it avoids any ambiguity.
I admit that I often edit posts for minor edits like adding code/quote tags or fixing a link (including in power users' posts sometimes BTW).
I consider that as long as the "message" (the meaning) is not altered, then there is no need to detail what has been done.

[RusselB]

I have to agree with Hagar as I know that I have done the same.

[RoryOF]

Ditto - I think simple typo corrections need no identification

[MrProgrammer]

After receiving two criticisms in the same post from an esteemed colleague, I decided to take a couple of weeks away from the forum to consider whether I would continue here. For now, I have decided to do so, since I believe I can add value here both as a volunteer and as a moderator.

Editing of a user's post by an entitled person (administrator) not naming himself

I did not alter the content of the post by morphingstar, just moved it to a new topic. And I did note in the topic that the post was moved and explained why it was moved. I did not identify myself as the agent, since I don't understand why that helps here. The action and the agent are both logged automatically by the forum in the Moderator Log if there is any need to investigate. In this case, morphingstar was responding to my own solution in the earlier topic. I did not want to respond in the former topic, since the new subject is different than the one from hypersapien in 2011 and a response there would have made that topic more confusing. I would have responded to morphingstar in the new one when I had time for that, except that I took an extended break from all forum activities based on your post.

Automatic entries in Moderator Log which show the agent (me), date, time, and topic subject

Regarding the need to document moderation actions, I recognize that this is appropriate, and I appreciate the thoughts from the other moderators about this subject. However I suspect that Lupp underestimates how much time we moderators spend, and I would give more weight to this concern if it had come from another moderator. As a valued Volunteer here, Lupp could request Moderator status, if willing to devote additional time for it. I am sure we would all welcome that. But let me remind everyone that moderators provide this service pro-bono, and thus the forum must strike a balance between unrestricted moderation freedom, and burdensome requirements for the task. If we allow too much freedom, the forum will degenerate into one which nobody will want to use. If we create too much burden for moderators, no one will do the job, and the forum will be useless.

Usage of plural pronouns ("they" in this case) for a single person

I find it amusing that Lupp is providing advice about how I should use my own native language and am ignoring the objection. English is wonderful, but complex, and I have respect for anyone who has learned it as a second or third language, which may be the case here. However, I am confident my wording is appropriate contempory style.

[Hagar Delest]

I'm quite sad to see this kind of discussion, especially when it comes this far. Glad to hear that MrProgrammer is still here, you have my full support. If I had to document each moderation action I take, it would be the end of it. And as said, every action is logged by the system.

Lupp, if you agree, we can indeed bring you on board of the moderators team. Let us know. See also The Moderator Code of Conduct.
If others are willing, they are welcome. The last update is back in June 2019!

Note: I usually do not document my changing the topic title when there has been at least one reply already because the replies that have been made with the initial title are given as title the "Re:" plus the initial title. Thus, if the first post shows a different title, then it means that it has been edited. The edit action being logged by the forum software.

[RoryOF]

I agree with Hagar that if every moderation action had to be explicitly logged and described the burden would be insupportable.

It has always been a pleasure to have back-channel (i.e., private) discussions with other Volunteers and Moderators, and indeed, a great pleasure to meet some in person on my travels; I hope, when (if) the virus pandemic eases and travel is "normal" to meet others in the future.

We must always be aware of the linguistic differences and professional backgrounds of the different persons; when in doubt, we should not take offence.

Rory

[Hagar Delest]

I've moved the topic from General to Forum governance where it i more appropriate IMHO.
Please remember that there is the private area also available for Volunteers if something needs to be discussed more privately.

[keme]

I'm quite sad to see this kind of discussion, especially when it comes this far. ...

Don't be sad!

"This far":

• One person airing an opinion (or two) about forum courtesy and language usage.
• A few responses, fairly balanced.
• No personal attacks.
• No heated argument.

I'd say this is a clarification of workload, language, duties and motivation which, though perhaps not "essential information", may ease the mind for some of us who are annoyed by minute details.
Also (+1)...

We must always be aware of the linguistic differences and professional backgrounds of the different persons; when in doubt, we should not take offence.

Difference of opinion is not always a bad thing.

[Hagar Delest]

I meant that if a comment triggered a disengagement for a couple of weeks, it means that it took a significant toll on the motivation, and that comment may be felt as an attack. I see more criticism (merely disguised attack) in the first post than forum courtesy.
Maybe I'm oversensitive here also. I guess that our different backgrounds and personal situations make us view a same message rather differently.

[RoryOF]

With regard to the he/she gender issue mentioned in the first post, English is difficult. One can say (s)he, but that solution does not work for him/her. Another way is to say "that poster"; an objection to this is that it requires more typing. The use of them/they is becoming acceptable and might be the answer of choice, although distasteful to the linguistic purist.

As a native speaker of English (although Irish!) I have no problem with the use of he/him as including the female gender, but I understand that this may not please some females, so they/them might be a best choice.

My overall thinking is that someone posts on the Forum usually for help, and should be content to get our usual speedy and good help, not to be worrying about the niceties of modes of address, particularly when that is polite, or at least matter-of-fact, and their gender is concealed behind a gender neutral Forum name.