Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby John_Ha » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:01 pm

MrProgrammer wrote:You will need to learn how to use Scribus, of course, but that time may be better spent than time wasted fighting with OpenOffice.

Be sure to distinguish between getting the text into electronic form, where AOO should be fine; and creating and laying out a book from that text, which may well use different software (like Scribus?).
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby david613 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:11 am

MrProgrammer wrote:You could so some searching in the Scribus documentation or, if necessary, ask about that feature on the Scribus Wiki. If you determine that Scribus is better suited to your project, we would definitely like to know about your findings in this topic and also in Have you been using Open Office in Hebrew (or Arabic)? so that we can direct future questioners there.

You will need to learn how to use Scribus, of course, but that time may be better spent than time wasted fighting with OpenOffice.

If this solved your problem please go to your first post use the Edit button and add [Solved] to the start of the title. You can select the green checkmark icon at the same time.
[/quote]

Thank you for your advice. I didn't know Scribus. As soon as I find out, I will let you know.

Regarding OpenOffice, there are two reasons why I would like to be able to do my project with it: 1) I use OpenOffice since more than ten years and I really like it: very well designed, wonderful people on the forum...); 2) There is a Hebrew version of OpenOffice which one can download. How those people who downloaded it works with it? It is not only curiosity, but it is too.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby david613 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:58 pm

MrProgrammer wrote:You could so some searching in the Scribus documentation or, if necessary, ask about that feature on the Scribus Wiki. If you determine that Scribus is better suited to your project, we would definitely like to know about your findings in this topic and also in Have you been using Open Office in Hebrew (or Arabic)? so that we can direct future questioners there.


From Scribus I received this: "Scribus is a DTP tool, not an office text processor like MS Word or LibreOffice Writer".

This means that I have first to write a text and then domwload it on Scribus. This doesn't solve my problem.

So far, I didn't find a solution. If I do, I will let you know.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby RoryOF » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:28 pm

A quick search (not exhaustive) suggests that the obvious program to use is Adobe InDesign (nothing else showing up on my search); my memory of having used PageMaker (InDesign's predecessor) and later a brief use of InDesign before transferring to linux and StarOffice/OpenOffice twelve or more years ago was that one can enter text directly into InDesign, but that it makes more sense to enter one's text in a dedicated editor (in PageMaker I used NotePad and Word) and pour it into InDesign. InDesign should handle all the formatting.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby MrProgrammer » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:31 pm

david613 wrote:This means that I have first to write a text and then domwload it on Scribus.
I created the club's entire newsletters, including all the articles I (and others) wrote and associated graphics in Scribus without using Writer or another word processor first. I suggest you try it for yourself, since you have no solution yet. The download is free, of course. But you will need to learn how to use Scribus.

However maybe you will want to create the text in Writer first. I believe I remember that Scribus can import Writer documents; I did not use that feature. While I don't do much with Writer (except answer questions about it), my understanding is that page numbering, which seems to be the focus of this topic, and indeed the entire concept of pages, is a feature which exists to support printing of the document. Perhaps you can work with the document chiefly in Writer but use Scribus to print it with the page numbers reversed from the order we use for documents in English.

RoryOF wrote:A quick search (not exhaustive) suggests that the obvious program to use is Adobe InDesign …
The price seems to be USD 21 per month.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby John_Ha » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:38 pm

david613 wrote:This means that I have first to write a text and then domwload it on Scribus. This doesn't solve my problem.

Yes it does. As I have said several times:

John_Ha wrote:Be sure to distinguish between getting the text into electronic form, where AOO should be fine; and creating and laying out a book from that text, which may well use different software (like Scribus?).

What happened when you tried the six suggestions in your other thread?

John_Ha wrote:1. Googling for a Hebrew word processor quickly found Davkawriter 7 for windows which says
DavkaWriter 7 is the premiere Hebrew/English word processor for Windows. It can handle everything from short documents and memos to full-length books and articles ...
... Hebrew/English footnote and page numbering

2. Ask a synagogue what software they recommend.

3. Google for an author who writes in Hebrew. Contact them and ask what they use.

4. Contact a university in Israel and ask what software they recommend.

5. Contact a publisher which publishes in Hebrew.

6. Be sure to distinguish between getting the text into electronic form, where AOO should be fine; and creating and laying out a book from that text, which may well use different software. Does Adobe Acrobat, which supports Hebrew, do good Hebrew layout?

Did none of them produce anything useful?
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby Villeroy » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:02 pm

Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby RoryOF » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:15 am

A template exists for OpenOffice for RTL magazines; this may be of help in producing a book. I have not investigated it at all, so cannot say if it is compatible with current OO v4.

It may be downloaded from
https://templates.openoffice.org/en/template/rtl-magazine

A workaround has been offered, where the book is edited in normal LTR form, using RTL text, exported as PDF, then the page order reversed in the PDF and printing is done from the reversed PDF.

Details are at
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1014567/printing-right-to-left-in-booklet-format

Again, I have not investigated this.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby david613 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:48 pm

John_Ha wrote:
david613 wrote:This means that I have first to write a text and then domwload it on Scribus. This doesn't solve my problem.

Yes it does. As I have said several times:

John_Ha wrote:Be sure to distinguish between getting the text into electronic form, where AOO should be fine; and creating and laying out a book from that text, which may well use different software (like Scribus?).


I understand that but it's impossible to write a entire document (a book) with pages going the opposite way and make the change with Scribe. It will be too much work to adjust everything. At least, it seems to me.

John_Ha wrote:What happened when you tried the six suggestions in your other thread?


1. DavkaWriter 7
This is a discontinued software and I don't really want to pay $159 for such a software.

2. Ask a synagogue what software they recommend.
I asked: they use Word.

3. Google for an author who writes in Hebrew. Contact them and ask what they use.
So far, I didn't receive an answer.

4. Contact a university in Israel and ask what software they recommend.
Like every other country, everything is closed Israel and I it is impossible to be in touch with somebody.

5. Contact a publisher which publishes in Hebrew.
Two answer: they use Word.

6. Be sure to distinguish between getting the text into electronic form, where AOO should be fine; and creating and laying out a book from that text, which may well use different software. Does Adobe Acrobat, which supports Hebrew, do good Hebrew layout?
Same thing with Scribus: I need a software I can write with.

Today, I downloaded Word for a one-month free trial and it works perfectly. As soon as I put "Hebrew" as chosen language, the pages go in the right direction (which is from right to left). I am bothered by the idea to pay for that software (don't really have the money for), but if I have no other choice, I might have to go for it. :crazy:
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby Joseph S » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:59 am

I am interested in helping you. If you are still looking for someone who can help you I am ready to do this. Thank you!
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby david613 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:06 am

Joseph S wrote:I am interested in helping you. If you are still looking for someone who can help you I am ready to do this. Thank you!


Yes, I still need help because so far - except Word which is expensive - I didn't find a solution.

Thank you for your concern.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby RoryOF » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:03 am

An interesting point: If one set a book in Hebrew (i.e., RTL text) using the normal page structure of Open-/Libre-Office, placing the entirety of each page in a frame, then inverted the frames (180 degree rotation); printing out the book and inverting it would give one a book in Hebrew correctly formatted for opening. But this would be a counsel of desperation. Make a folded mockup and see that this would work - I have done so.

One would have to set up a linked frame structure, complete with page headers/footers in each frame, then automate the rotation of the frames. The actual typesetting/text entry would not permit viewing a page ope, which can be important when it comes to layout.
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby david613 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:47 am

RoryOF wrote:An interesting point: If one set a book in Hebrew (i.e., RTL text) using the normal page structure of Open-/Libre-Office, placing the entirety of each page in a frame, then inverted the frames (180 degree rotation); printing out the book and inverting it would give one a book in Hebrew correctly formatted for opening. But this would be a counsel of desperation. Make a folded mockup and see that this would work - I have done so.

One would have to set up a linked frame structure, complete with page headers/footers in each frame, then automate the rotation of the frames. The actual typesetting/text entry would not permit viewing a page ope, which can be important when it comes to layout.


This is what I tried and you're right: it works, but il will be very unpractical to write a book in such a way. It will be my last choice.

Thank you for the clue. :bravo:
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Re: Book in Hebrew opening from left to right

Postby RoryOF » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:48 pm

I came across a word processor called Mellel, which claims to support RTL languages. It only runs on a Mac, and I have no knowledge of its book layout options.
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