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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:55 pm

This document may be informative; it is shorter than the OO documentation:
Writer for students (several languages)
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:12 pm

I have not time today or tomorrow to do a detailed analysis of your document because of other commitments, but can make some immediate suggestions.

First of all, remove the black background from your page Headers and Footers, so that you can see what is going on. At a later stage you can reinsert a background if you want, but for the present, remove it. Do this by clicking cursor in each Header/Footer that has the background, then /Format /Paragraph : Border tab (on some operating systems, "Area tab"). select "no fill" or "White" (I prefer "no fill") in the selection box.

When you have Chapter Chapter showing in the page header, you have inserted two copies of the Chapter Field. Place cursor immediately in front of one field, and press Delete key.

In the text, where you use the Heading level you have defined for the chapter title, this will not read on the chapter page unless it is exactly the first line of text on that page - that is, the first line in the text area, not in the page Header area. If Chapter is still showing in the Page Header, toggle /View /Field names. /If you wish that Chapter title to be spaced down the page do not do so by repeatedly pressing Enter; to get the Chapter title (Heading n) to read as the Chapter title, you need to edit its Paragraph style and insert the desired white space on Paragraph Style, Indents & Spacing tab, in the Spacing above paragraph box.

On any Page Style, go with the default settings for height and spacing of the Header or Footer, to avoid (as you have on some pages) extended height Headers.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby Bill » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:44 pm

RoryOF wrote:First of all, remove the black background from your page Headers and Footers, so that you can see what is going on. At a later stage you can reinsert a background if you want, but for the present, remove it. Do this by clicking cursor in each Header/Footer that has the background, then /Format /Paragraph : Border tab (on some operating systems, "Area tab"). select "no fill" or "White" (I prefer "no fill") in the selection box.

It may be sufficient to just turn off View > Field Shadings. When Field Shadings is on, the text in the fields becomes unreadable when the background is black. The text does become readable (on my system) when Field Shadings is turned off.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby Bill » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:49 am

Bill wrote:Now I'm wondering if you even have chapter titles in the text.

Looks like I was right about that. This is why you're having problems getting the chapter names in the headers. Usually the chapter titles are typed in the first paragraph of a new chapter and the Heading 1 paragraph style is applied to that title. When you insert a chapter name field in the header, Writer finds the Heading 1 paragraph and inserts the text from that paragraph in the chapter name field. But since there is no Heading 1 paragraph at the beginning of the chapter, there's no text for Writer to find.

To fix this problem, you need to type your chapter titles immediately below the page break at the beginning of each chapter and press CTRL+1 to apply the Heading 1 paragraph style to the chapter title, For example, on the Dedication page in the sample document, delete the word "Dedication" from the header, then click just below the page break, type "Dedication", then press CTRL+1. You will end up with "Dedication" repeated near the top of the page so you may just want to remove the header from that page and leave it on the other pages in the chapter.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:12 am

The black backgrounds have been removed from all headers and footers.

I did not put the Chapter names in the text, I tried to put them in the headers. Does this mean I can never get them into the headers?

When I try to fix the Chapter Chapter borgle something prevents me putting the cursor immediately in front of either Chapter.

Will keep trying.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby Bill » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:43 am

DWDun wrote:The black backgrounds have been removed from all headers and footers.

I did not put the Chapter names in the text, I tried to put them in the headers. Does this mean I can never get them into the headers?

Of course not. It's done all the time. When using chapter name fields in headers, Writer has to be told when a new chapter begins. A Heading 1 paragraph IN THE TEXT is what does this. The text of the Heading 1 paragraph tells Writer the name of the new chapter so Writer can display the name in the chapter name field. If you don't begin a new chapter with a Heading 1 paragraph, then Writer has no way of knowing that a new chapter has started. RoryOF uploaded a sample document Sep 13 that can illustrate this. Apply the Default paragraph style to one of the Heading 1 paragraphs in his sample document and see what happens in the header.

DWDun wrote:When I try to fix the Chapter Chapter borgle something prevents me putting the cursor immediately in front of either Chapter.

When I click directly on the field name (Chapter) the cursor starts blinking in front of the field name.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby Bill » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:45 pm

I have modified the sample document to show the chapter names in the headers and fix the page numbering.

Since each chapter should begin on a right page, I changed the Page Layout setting of the Dedication, ACKNOWLEDGMENTS and Introduction page styles from "Right and left" to "Only right" and inserted page breaks at the start of each chapter to force each chapter to start on a new right page. That also lets Writer insert blank pages automatically when necessary, eliminating the need for the EvenBlank... pages that were used to manually insert blank pages. I also modified the Default page style so the first 3 pages were the same size as the remaining pages. I put the chapter title in the first line after the page break and applied the Heading 1 paragraph style to each title. In some chapters, the chapter name then appeared in the header. In other chapters I had to insert the chapter name field in the header.

Regarding the page numbers, I modified the page number fields to change the "Offset" to "0". Offsets should not be used for page numbering. Page number changes should be made using the page number setting in page breaks. This can be done when first inserting a page break or done later by changing the page number setting in the first paragraph following a page break. Right-click the first line after a page break and select Paragraph. On the paragraph dialog, select the Text Flow tab. Check the "Insert" and "With Page Style" boxes to enable setting of the page number. A page number setting of "0" means "continue page numbering from the previous page". Any other number in the setting changes the page number. In this case, I had to change the page number setting from "0" to "1" in the first paragraph on the Dedication page and on the Introduction page.

Tip: With View > Field Names turned on, double-clicking on the field name in the header or footer opens the appropriate Fields dialog.

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Re: Chapter Names

Postby Bill » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:56 pm

I noticed something I forgot to do. The headers on the right pages have the Heading 2 style applied, but the headers on the left pages have the Header style applied which makes the headers different sizes. For consistency the headers on all pages should formatted using the same style.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:07 pm

Bill,
I have looked at your response and approve of all the changes yo made. They answer the things that had me treed.
The only questions I have about any of them are:
Will I be stuck with having the Chapter name appear in both the Header and the body text in the first page of each Chapter?
and,
How do I incorporate the changes you made in the DummyText into my working file here?
and,
can I simply follow your narrative to make the changes here?
and,
How did you clean up the Chapter Chapter mess?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby Bill » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:41 am

DWDun wrote:Will I be stuck with having the Chapter name appear in both the Header and the body text in the first page of each Chapter?

You could turn off the header on the first page.

DWDun wrote:How do I incorporate the changes you made in the DummyText into my working file here?

I'm not sure what you looking for with that question. I basically gave you examples for you to follow. You should make a practice copy of your working file and try making similar changes on the practice document until you are comfortable making the changes. Only then should you try making the changes on a copy of the working file. Never change any important working file without a backup.

DWDun wrote:How did you clean up the Chapter Chapter mess?

The same way I would remove anything else from a document. Click in front of "ChapterChapter" and press the Delete key.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:48 am

One can only turn off the header on the first page, if I am correct, if using LibreOffice (I don't use it). In Open Office a Chapter page needs to be a separate page style, possibly a Right page, with no Header defined on it, and the follow on style set to be the normal text style pages.

You could use a file based on Bill's original and, chapter by chapter, copy and paste your text into it.

Formatting a book was typically the province of the compositor/typesetter, who served an apprenticeship of several years. One should not expect to master such skills overnight and without effort.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:11 pm

Bill;
In playing with DummyText and trying to do some of the things you had written, I do not enjoy the success you did.
For instance in trying to add Page break and Chapter name at the very beginning of the text in the Acknowledgement Chapter, I get the first PARAGRAPH with a black background, white text, right justified, and a second copy of that paragraph with the same formatting inserted in the next page.

I will try some of the other things you wrote about in my original text.

ChapterChapter continues to be un-correctable. When I put the cursor in front of the first Chapter and hit Delete it either brings the body text up one line, or jumps the cursor to the end of the Chapter name itself.

"I am not sure what you are looking for with that question." I was hoping that there would be a cut and paste remedy I might use but it appears not.

BTW, the first three pages of DummyText are defaulted to full letter size and making changes in Page Style does not change anything. The original text is not so affected.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:45 pm

Bill;
In my original text, when I add a PageBreak and the Chapter Name before the first text of a Chapter, then use the Control 1 keys, the first paragraph is rendered in Bold with a blue or selected background, extra wide left margin, right justified, and the same formatting is applied to the next three paragraphs or more if any kind of corrective action is taken. Finally nothing to do but close it and discard changes.

When we get this mess cleaned up I will have to do this for every Chapter, right?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Finally got "Page Break / Chapter Name / CTRL 1" to act correctly by inserting the Page Break, Enter, Chapter Name, Enter, immediately before the Chapter text. CTRL 1 had no adverse effect that way. Are there other such subtleties you can share with me?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:48 pm

I still seek methodology to get rid of ChapterChapter. Positioning the cursor just before the first Chapter and using the Delete key does not work. Any other suggestions?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:13 pm

Try positioning between the two fields; if when you try to delete you get an error message, it would be helpful to know what it said.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:26 pm

Something will not let me put the cursor anywhere within Chapter Chapter. The cursor can be either directly at the first letter, or it will be several spaces (about 3 or 4) beyond the last character of the second word.

And please disregard my posting that I have "Page Break / Chapter Name / and CTRL 1" working. It did once, but only once.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:33 pm

Turn on /View /Non printing characters which should show any spaces after the two fields; they should show as a raised dot for each space. Position cursor to the end of these and press backspace to remove them.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:39 pm

Backspace takes out the first one left of the cursor, but no more. Going to the front of the Chapter Chapter to use the Delete Key has no effect. I will try closing the file between attempts to use Backspace.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:52 pm

WHY are there two different pages of postings for Page Numbers and is there any way to get from one to the other?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:58 pm

Go to the last space after the Chapter Chapter and press Backspace.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:01 pm

Nada
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:10 pm

I have downloaded and opened your DummyText file of 18 September 17:45 BST; I passed through the file, and was able, by positioning cursor immediately before each and every instance of Chapter, to delete that field by pressing Delete.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:13 pm

Would you suggest Cut & Pasting DummyText into my original text?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:22 pm

I would suggest leaving your original text alone, so that it is as little disturbed as possible, then starting a new blank file, formatted to give the layout you require (perhaps Bill's sample will suffice) then selecting the text of each chapter in your original, Copying it, switching to the new file, and pasting it in position.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:27 pm

Do you think I should take another step or two backwards and institute templates as well? I earnestly seek your advice.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:33 pm

Look on the OO extensions site https://extensions.openoffice.org and examine the various book templates; if you find one of those that you like, you can Copy/Paste your text into it. I suggest you leave its formatting unchanged until you have a reasonably formatted copy of your book; then you might start to tweak it to your design.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:39 pm

I will look there and I'm sure I'll find the one I want, however, your last sentence throws me. Could you clarify?
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby RoryOF » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:42 pm

Basically, don't fiddle with the template - leave the formatting as it is; when you have your text formatted consistently, then, and only then, is time to consider tweaking the formatting to your design.
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Re: Chapter Names

Postby DWDun » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:32 pm

A few quick questions:
How do I know whether I am tweaking the imported text or the Template I'm trying to use? i have not imposed any page size number changes yet. When would it be permitted? Everything defaults to letter size but I would like to have EVERY page default to 6.00 x 9.00. Isn't that how templates are supposed to work? Is it too early to invoke that style?

After I have formatted a Chapter's first page to be Only Right, how do I format its following pages to be Left or Right? Must I insert a page break on the first following page?

When I imported the Dedication text, inserted the page break and Chapter name and pressed CTRL 1, turns out it had brought along all of its previous attempts at Chapter Name from the old text. At least it could be deleted and I haven't seen anything of Chapter Chapter yet. But I will not be surprised if I do.
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