Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

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Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:49 am

What explains the difference between the way fonts look when a file's Empress notes are printed with OO versus with Libre. The notes have the Calibri 20 font. With OO the copy looks cleaner, slightly larger, slightly more space between lines. And the line to line lengths don't correspond -- where line one might be longer than line 2 on OO -- vise versa for Libre.

I use Windows 10 and a Brother 8860 DN laser printer that can print booklets having four pages per sheet of paper -- two pages on front and two on back.

I am wondering if there are adjustments that I could make. What factors might control the differences?
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:35 pm

Are AOO and LO installed on the same PC? or on different PCs?
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:59 pm

John_Ha wrote:Are AOO and LO installed on the same PC? or on different PCs?

They are both on the same Windows 10 PC. The LO is newly installed, both current versions.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:56 pm

Please post large enough images of both so the difference can be examined
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:35 pm

Libre vs OO.odt
(109.32 KiB) Downloaded 54 times
John_Ha wrote:Please post large enough images of both so the difference can be examined

Here are 3 screen captures in an odt file.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:42 pm

Is it the same if you try a different font?
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:59 am

John_Ha wrote:Is it the same if you try a different font?

The attached odt file shows that using tahoma font the LO and OO screen shots have the same look and quality -- as far as the font goes. So both programs use tahoma.

The sizing differs though. The LO screen shot is larger than the OO. But when those notes are printed directly from the two programs the result is the opposite -- where LO doesn't fill enough of the paper's page.

I don't understand the reversal between screen and paper.

I would like to have finer control over the sizing on the printed paper page in each program.

EDIT: The file won't upload! :cry:
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby RoryOF » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:35 am

On the earlier file you posted the interline spacing on the OO file differs from that in the LO file. Possibly the LO file is using an OpenGL version of that font and the OO version is not.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby robleyd » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:47 am

[Forum] How to attach a document here Note maximum file size is 128K. If your file is larger, use a file sharing site such as Mediafire and post the link here. The link also contains information on how to anonymise your document if it contains confidential information.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:54 am

EDIT: The file won't upload! :cry:

We can guessing only without a specific file.
Please prepare a small ODF type presentation document, and upload that here.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:33 pm

Libre vs OO-2.odt
(119.03 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
I opened the odt file with Libre and saved it over itself. That changed the file size from 130 to 120. Here it is.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 pm

What should we be looking for in your uploaded file? It all looks OK to me in AOO and in LO.

The file states the font is Tahoma - it isn't - it is Verdana (unless you mean the font in the image).

Clipboard01.gif

I think you need to upload two files, namely LO.odt, saved by LO; and AOO.odt, saved by AOO.

Then tell us what you see differently when you open LO.odt with LO and print it, compared with opening AOO.odt with AOO and printing it. Referr, if necessary, to the file with the images you posted.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:34 pm

Libre vs OO-2.odt

PLEASE, upload two ODF type IMPRESS sample file here!
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:23 pm

OpenOffice file with one slide.odp
(31.08 KiB) Downloaded 44 times
LibreOffice file with one slide.odp
(21.86 KiB) Downloaded 42 times
I have created two files.

LibreOffice file with one slide.odp
OpenOffice file with one slide.odp

The one slide in each file was copied by drag-and-drop from the corresponding program (LO or OO) which had loaded a single presentation file.

Examining the notes:
On-screen each looks like it would fill a full page.
The printed paper copies of the notes differ as follows.

Vertical distance, top of slide to footer:
OO: 10 inches,
LO: 7.75 inches.

Horizontal width of first line of notes:
OO: 5 inches
LO: 4 inches

Examining the picture of Socrates:
OO: Vertical is greater than horizontal.
LO: Vertical is less than horizontal.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby RoryOF » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:46 pm

The OpenOffice file uses Arial, the LibreOffice file uses Liberation sans, as far as I can see.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:42 am

RoryOF wrote:The OpenOffice file uses Arial, the LibreOffice file uses Liberation sans, as far as I can see.


When opened on my computer, for both OO and LO, the notes of that slide indicate Tahoma.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:43 am

Rory

Agreed

shilliard

Highlight some text and go Format > Character ..., and Format > Paragraph ..., to see all the attributes.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:08 am

I have both LO and OO notes open on screen side by side.

The LO note Tahoma text is biggest on screen but it will be smallest when printed.

The LO picture image at top of the note is smallest (fattest face) on screen but will be biggest (longest face) when printed.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:10 am

shilliard wrote:I have both LO and OO notes open on screen side by side.

The LO note Tahoma text is biggest on screen but it will be smallest when printed.

The LO picture image at top of the note is smallest (fattest face) on screen but will be biggest (longest face) when printed.

That's because the slides are of different design - they are not identical. For example, in the LO file the image is 9.56cm x 7.50cm located at [9.23cm, 2.60cm]. In the AOO file it is 9.56 x 10.0 located at [9.23, 3.46]. r-click the image > Position and Size ..., to check.

The image is of very poor quality because it is only 153 x 160 pixels. See [Tutorial] Some useful hints on using images for a discussion on how best to handle images.

Take a copy of the AOO file and open the file in AOO and the copy in LO. They are both the same. Repeat with LO - they are both the same again.

Remember that the font showing in the font drop-down selection box is the font the document is asking for.

If the font being asked for is not installed on the PC, Windows (or other operating system) will silently substitute a different font which is available, and use that substitute font to display the text.

You can see which fonts are installed on a Windows PC by Start > Control Panel > Fonts or by clicking C:\Windows\Fonts.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:31 am

My Windows 10 had both Calibri and Tahoma (the current notes font here.) I suppose we can't compare what we see using different PCs unless we have the same fonts on each.

Here is more of what I am seeing:
At top of note, in the LO frame around the image, there is a space above and below the image itself -- as if a landscape picture were inserted into a portrait frame.

This in addition to the difference in size between LO and OO, and the reversal of the size comparison between screen and printed paper.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:40 am

Here is a possibly related question. When AOO creates a new presentation it asks if the medium will be print or screen. I don't understand that.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:58 am

The two files are different so they look different.

1. Just work with one file.
2. Just work with one application - AOO or LO. AOO and LO are different programs. Expect differences.

John_Ha wrote:Take a copy of the AOO file and open the file in AOO and the copy in LO. They are both the same. Repeat with LO - they are both the same again.

What happened when you did that? Please be careful to explain whether you are looking at a Notes page or at a Slide page.

shilliard wrote:When AOO creates a new presentation it asks if the medium will be print or screen. I don't understand that.

Click the Help button on the dialogue window.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby Zizi64 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:18 am

RoryOF wrote:
The OpenOffice file uses Arial, the LibreOffice file uses Liberation sans, as far as I can see.


shilliard,

You are using two Styles only in your sample file - without modifying the default property of the Font of the styles:
- the Default style
- and the Title style.

The default settings are different in the AOO and the LO.
Why?
Because the Arial font is a Microsoft heritage: It is a commercial font. You can not embed the commercial fonts into the documents if the licence of the commercial font does not allow this for you. Therefore the Developers of the LibreOffice use really free and opensource Fonts for the default properties.
But you can change these properties in the style manager. F11, or you will find it on the Sidebar, or in the Menu.

Do not use direct (manual) formatting. Use the styles in every situation: Create, adjust and apply your own Styles with the desired properties: the type and color of the Background proteries, Line properties; type, color, size of the Font properties...
The Styles are the most valuable feature of the AOO ansd the LO.

.
Last edited by Zizi64 on Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:46 am

See AOO slide_jh.odp and LO slide_jh.odp.

1. Download both.
2. Open AOO slide_jh.odp with AOO.
3. Open LO slide_jh.odp with LO.

Both use Arial for the slide and Tahoma for the Notes. Both slide and Notes are identical in AOO and in LO. So: How did I fix the problem?

I copied AOO slide_jh.odp and named the copy LO slide_jh.odp so you are now opening identical files.

Zizi64 wrote:Because the Arial font is a Microsoft heritage: It is a commercial font. You can not embed the commercial fonts into the documents if the licence of the commercial font does not allow this for you. Therefore the Developers of the LibreOffice use really free and opensource Fonts for the default properties.

I think there are a number of errors in your comment. As far as fonts go, AOO and LO are identical.

1. No fonts are stored in the .odp files so licencing is irrelevant.

2. Both files use Arial font in the slide and Tahoma in the notes. Both AOO and LO use and display Arial and Tahoma fonts.

3. AOO and LO do not (to my knowledge) supply fonts with the Windows package (with the exception of the font for bullets).

4. AOO and LO see all the installed Microsoft fonts in C:\Windows\Fonts and AOO and LO can use any installed font they find.

5. The big difference is when AOO or LO are installed on Linux. Linux does not have any of the Microsoft fonts so only those fonts available in the Linux distribution are available for AOO and LO. For example, Microsoft's Arial is not available on a Linux distribution. Hence neither AOO nor LO will use Arial on Linux and, if a document calls for Arial, Linux will silently substitute the closest available installed font which approximates to Arial.

6. I think LO can use more font types (where by type I mean TrueType etc) than AOO - I forget which. But that is not relevant here.

AOO slide_jh.odp
File to be opened with AOO
(30.84 KiB) Downloaded 56 times

LO slide_jh - .odp
File to be opened with LO
(30.84 KiB) Downloaded 45 times
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby RoryOF » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:19 am

John_Ha wrote:
5. The big difference is when AOO or LO are installed on Linux. Linux does not have any of the Microsoft fonts so only those fonts available in the Linux distribution are available for AOO and LO. For example, Microsoft's Arial is not available on a Linux distribution. Hence neither AOO nor LO will use Arial on Linux and, if a document calls for Arial, Linux will silently substitute the closest available installed font which approximates to Arial.



In my earlier posting I was able to identify Arial as used, as I have Arial installed on my linux computers.

Because of the ubiquity of the MS font package, on linux one can install ttf-mscorefonts-installer, which supplies the (older) MS package of fonts. From memory, this needs to be installed from the command line to allow one accept the licence terms. This package should be available in the repositories of one's linux distro.

Some (all?) metrically identical fonts are available (e.g., Tinos, equivalent in look and metrics to Times New Roman), but the above corefonts package is quick and simple.

I have not found a package of newer MS fonts (names all c????.ttf), but haven't looked very hard; again, some metrically similar fonts exist in the linux world.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:07 am

I downloaded and opened each file in the program corresponding to the name and printed the notes.

The slides are identical in looks and size when printed.

On the notes printed to 8-1/2 x 11 paper, both the text and slide image look almost identical. But on the note, the AOO slide image and note-text are larger than LO (both width and height) by about 7 percent.

I am wondering if there is an adjustment to compensate for that 7% expansion/shrinkage in either program? I tried fit-to-page with LO (thinking it might expand) but that didn't change anything.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby Zizi64 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:41 am

On the notes printed to 8-1/2 x 11 paper,


All of uploaded sample files are "optimized" (set) to appearing on a DISPLAY, but not for printing:
The "Fit object to paper format" option is checked-in on the page properties dialog.

I never used that property, but I suppose it, based on that property the Impress will adjust the object sizes to the size of the media (paper or display)
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:03 pm

Check all the options in the File > Print ..., printer dialogue.

Showing that a problem has been solved helps others searching so, if your problem is now solved, please view your first post in this thread and click the Edit button (top right in the post) and add [Solved] in front of the subject.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby shilliard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:55 am

Zizi64 wrote:
On the notes printed to 8-1/2 x 11 paper,


All of uploaded sample files are "optimized" (set) to appearing on a DISPLAY, but not for printing:
The "Fit object to paper format" option is checked-in on the page properties dialog.

I never used that property, but I suppose it, based on that property the Impress will adjust the object sizes to the size of the media (paper or display)


The "Fit object to paper format" option is checked in the AOO page properties, But I cannot fine page properties in LO.
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Re: Font differences in printed notes between OO and Libre.

Postby John_Ha » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:10 am

John_Ha wrote:Check all the options in the File > Print ..., printer dialogue.
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