Image not printing as grayscale or w/ gamma

[kenno3]

Hi, please help? Ive been awake 18 hours. Tried search for 10 mins, did not find.
Im trying to print a grayscale image, in Writer, but it has a red frame over the grayscale image.. so I want the red "color" to be printed.
But when I print in color mode.. it printed the red ok, but it converted the black, gray... into colorized black, even tho in the Writer setting of the image, I set it to "grayscale" (when you click on the image and the menu bar shows up).
So why isn't the setting for that image (set as grayscale), printing as grayscale?
ALSO, I set an image to lower gamma (increase blackness). This change shows in the writer program... but when I print, it comes out different (gamma setting not applied). [On a grayscale image, I set gamma from 1.00, to .70. This appeared to make it blacker (in Writer, but it does not Print as blacker). That's what gamma does correct?].
I cant make the document in Draw.. its a very complex Writer document 200 pages.
Why isn't the Image setting, sticking upon Print?
I cant change default printer settings to grayscale [ http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/ ... inter.html ], because I need the overlapping red frames to print.
Please help ty.

PS, the image im inserting, is a black and white scan of writing. So it shouldn't have color. only minor gray colors. But mostly black.

[John_Ha]

Can you please upload an odt file so we can see what is happening.

The problem might be being caused by some colour mapping when you "mix" the red and the greyscale tones. The mapping algorithm might be reducing the colour gamut granted to the greyscale tones to only, say, 5% black to 95% black, to give space for the red. In this case, using a 24 bit colour image should fix it.

One option might be to copy the image to an image editor, and set it to greyscale in the image editor, and then reset it to 24 bit colour (but it will still be greyscale). Paste it back. This may fix it by ensuring the greyscale is genuinely greyscale, while allowing "space" for the red tone(s). Writer is a Word Processor - it is always best to do image processing in an proper image editor, and then put the final image into Writer. IrfanView is an excellent free image editor / viewer which is very simple to use and can do almost anything.

PS, the image im inserting, is a black and white scan of writing. So it shouldn't have color. only minor gray colors. But mostly black.

It will almost certainly have all 256 tones in it - the edges of the text will have many varieties of grey.

[acknak]

It certainly seems to work as expected for me, at least as far as exporting to pdf. There's not much point in my actually printing anything since I don't have a color printer.

You may want to try exporting to pdf and then try printing from your pdf viewer--it may have better control over the printing process.

There may be a relevant setting under the printer settings somewhere.

[kenno3]

guys im going crazy. I spent the last hours trying your ideas, before posting the update.

Im using Photoshop CS5. I changed mode to gray scale, then RGB, then saved as PNG-24. No fix.
Then I set to grayscale and saved as PNG-24, uncheck: convert to sRGB. Then I inserted into writer. I set image to grayscale mode.. then printed in color.. no fix.
I print a black and white version to compare what the grayscale should be.
I made a sample file.
Can you fix the image so I can print the image in grayscale, yet print the red frame in color (print on color mode, yet results of image in grayscale..as the setting tells it to be).
TY

PS I tried both of your ideas. TY for tip. Printing from PDF, didn't work at making it print in grayscale, yet still with the red frame.
I only care about 5 colors. black, white, gray, red, and blue (for later use). But my printer is colorizing the black/gray, and wasting ink.
I check my black ink at the printer. And the test file has solid black font, to test that black ink is working.

[John_Ha]

I am pretty sure it is a fault with your printer, not with the images, nor with AOO. I too only have a mono printer, but when printing to a PDF (File > Export as PDF), I get the attached PDF where the image prints correctly.

Try the attached Test.odt. Print it, then scan the result and upload it so we can see exactly which colours are changing.

Edit: Oops! No image - file replaced. I had been testing linked images, and had the Insert > Picture > From file > Insert Picture - Link box ticked by error, so the odt file was pointing to the picture on my PC

ALSO, I set an image to lower gamma (increase blackness). This change shows in the writer program... but when I print, it comes out different (gamma setting not applied). [On a grayscale image, I set gamma from 1.00, to .70. This appeared to make it blacker (in Writer, but it does not Print as blacker). That's what gamma does correct?].

You shouldn't need to adjust the gamma - leave it as it is.

gamma is used to match the response of the viewing/printing device_viewing_the image, to the sensor_taking_the_image response. If both are linear, they are automatically matched. But if, say, the sensor is more relatively responsive to lighter shades than to darker shades, the image will appear too light. Changing the gamma allows this to be corrected in the image, so the lighter shades can be made darker so it views / prints correctly. People often "misuse??" gamma to brighten or darken an image. For example, if you take a photo at night without a flash, it is very dark. Changing the gamma can often recover a lot of detail (at the expense of highlighting the noise). Google gamma fro a more detailed explanation.

[RoryOF]

kenno3's file prints correctly for me, without any adjustment, on Epson WP4535; it gives a result like John_Ha's test-color-print_.pdf.

I think it must be a driver/setting problem for his printer. What printer model?

[John_Ha]

The image in the odt is only 212 x 118 pixels which is quite small.

Can you upload the original image you want to insert into the odt file, making it as high resolution and as large as possible (about 600 - 800 pixels wide). There are a number of simple enhancements you can make to the original image which will improve its readability - I will try them. If you are scanning the image, do so in greyscale and at high dpi count.

[acknak]

If you're using an ink jet printer, it may be trying to save ink by mapping near-black to pure black. The specific image may make this worse since it has a very narrow range of tones.

I don't know how CMYK inks are mixed to make gray tones. It seems it would be quite wasteful (and maybe not very effective) to use them all together, but if you just use black ink and white paper, you may not get a smooth gray result, especially with an almost black & white image as in this case.

[John_Ha]

I am still convinced the problem lies with your printer, especially as you mention "blue speckles" in your odt file. acknak's suggestsion seems very relevant - are you using your three colours to produce black, instead of using black? If so, I would guess it is more likely to throw up "speckles". Has the black ink run out?

I downloaded your odt file and copied the images out and analysed them with IrfanView. I can see no difference between them - they are all 24 bit greyscale images with 256 "colours". (Note that a greyscale image is only 256 colours, so actually needs only 8 bits - the other 16 bits will be zeros).

Edit: On further checking, this is as expected. The image is stored only once in the odt, but if I View > Toolbars > Picture to get the pictures toolbar; then highlight an image, I can set it to greyscale or B&W etc using the Toolbar. This applies that filter to the image, but only when creating the viewable image on the screen (or the image for printing). The actual image stored in the odt is unchanged. So, when I use an image with more subtle shading (the bridge image from my earlier post), and apply B&W, it is dramatically obvious that B&W has been applied. When I r-click the B&W image and copy it out of Writer, I get the original greyscale image.

When I unzip the ODT, as expected, AOO has saved only one copy of the file and is referencing that copy for each of the four images.

It is strongly recommended that you do image processing in an image editor to get your images as you want them to look. Place the edited image in Writer, using Writer merely to re-size the image. An image editor also has the tools to analyse the image - this is what IrfanView (much easier to use than Photoshop or GIMP) says about the image.

Histogram showing the number of pixels (vertical) having a colour value from 0 (black) to 255 (white) horizontal. All three colours are identical to the Luminosity showing it is true greyscale.

hist.png (4.96 KiB) Viewed 12839 times

Image information

[kenno3]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies and happy fathers day. (To non-fathers, you are still fatherly for helping).

Im still having problems with printing an image in grayscale only (which is set to "grayscale" in Writer).

If you're using an ink jet printer, it may be trying to save ink by mapping near-black to pure black. The specific image may make this worse since it has a very narrow range of tones.

I don't know how CMYK inks are mixed to make gray tones. It seems it would be quite wasteful (and maybe not very effective) to use them all together, but if you just use black ink and white paper, you may not get a smooth gray result, especially with an almost black & white image as in this case.

Yes, my printer is an Ink Jet, Epson 3540, 3 colors, plus black. Black ink is filled up. I manually checked, and normal black font, is printing as solid black. It is a waste of colored ink, as you say, which is one of the main reasons I want to get my issue solved.


Now I printed out John_Ha's file, and scanned it. Then inserted it into a Writer doc and added notes. It is ~3 MB, so I used a file host.

Code: Select all

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/541896/test-with-image-then-print-scan-odt.html

I set his image to "grayscale" mode, in Writer. Then I printed his file in color, then also in black/white - on the same page, upside down. As you can see, in color mode, the printer prints gray as tones of color. I do not want this.

are you using your three colours to produce black, instead of using black? If so, I would guess it is more likely to throw up "speckles". Has the black ink run out?

See note above, black ink is full. But when I print in "color" mode, the printer is printing grays as colored ink (yes, it is three colours to produce black), instead of using only black shades of ink. Using only black shades of ink to produce the result I want, is possible, as shown in the next sentence:

In black/white mode, the printer prints as tones of black. This is what I want, and this is what I am trying to tell the printer to do, by setting its image mode to "grayscale" in Writer. But the setting is not working on any printer? or not working as intended?


For my real file, I also tried this: I saved my file > Export > PDF, image compression as JPG 90%. Then I printed a problem page (in color), using Windows 8 PDF viewer. But the gray image still prints using colored ink tones, instead of purely black ink. Black ink is filled. I manually checked, and normal black font, is printing as solid black.

For my real file, I also tried this: I also went to Print > Properties > "More Options" Tab > set to "Custom"... Then click "Advanced" Tab > set to "No Color Adjustment" - but the grayish image (set to "grayscale" in Writer) still prints with colored ink, for the gray tones.

In regards to an issue with my printer, can anyone set a grayish image to "grayscale" mode, in Writer; then put a red (colored) frame over it. Then print in color.
Then take the same document and print in black/white. Do your gray colors match? Or is one is colored tones, while the other in black tones?

I need grayscale mode to work for colored prints (so that the "image" prints in gray, using black ink only), yet still prints a colored "frame."
I do not see how I can fix this by processing the image first, because if it has any gray color, then once I insert it into Writer, and again print in color, it will colorize the gray??

I test will different image processing modes, using that program you mentioned; then post an update (but my image was originally scanned as black/white, then saved as grayscale in image processor. And ill try to make a censored version of the bigger image I'm using. TY.

[John_Ha]

kenno3

Quick reply as it's 11pm here. I will look at your file later and go through your last post.

Meanwhile, the most important thing is for you to diagnose whether it is AOO Writer or your printer. The easiest way to do this is to print a greyscale image from another application. If it prints with colours, then it is the printer causing the problem. If it prints OK, then it (probably) is AOO causing the problem.

Download the attached greyscale image (or r-click > Save image as > greyscale image.png). Now open it in Photoshop. Now print it from Photoshop.

I don't have a colour printer so I am somewhat hampered.

Edit: I have now (very quickly) looked at the uploaded file. When I check the colour of the "dark purple tint in the 3rd band from the left in the greyscale chart of your uploaded file", I find it is Red = 97, Green = 71, Blue = 98. So (in RGB) this purple is because there is not enough green. When I check the actual colour of "the 3rd band in the greyscale chart in my odt file" it is RGB = [57, 57, 57]. Now, RGB [97, 71, 98] converts to CMYK [0.01, 0.276, 0.0, 0.616] RGB [97, 97, 98] converts to CMYK [0.1, 0.1, 0.0, 0.616] RGB [97, 97, 97] converts to CMYK [0.0, 0.0, 0.0 0.62] which suggests that too much Magenta is getting through. Also, if R=G=B in the image, then C=0, M=0, Y=0, and it prints only black. So is the image definitely genuine greyscale where R=G=B? When I test my image it is always R=G=B. When I test random greys in your images out of test-color-print_.odt they all have R=G=B. 1 Check your cartridges. Is the nozzle slightly blocked? Is it nearly empty? How does it print a full C? Full M? Full Y? 2 Check your printer. It appears that it is using the three colours to print this grey. Why? a) Is it because the printer has a mode which says use three colours instead of black? b) Or is it because the image being sent to the printer itself is not genuine greyscale, and is asking for RGB = [97, 71, 98], which means the printer must use three colours. As this is my image which I know is greyscale [57, 57, 57] PNG I am 100% certain AOO is not "introducing the colours" - I am certain the image being sent is OK. 3 Why is [57, 57, 57] being printed as [97, 71, 98]? Is it because the gamma of R and B has been increased (by the printer??) such that 57 goes to 97/98 whereas the gamma of the G has only been increased from 57 to 71? I am 99% certain it is a problem with your printer. Can you print a test page with it? The printout is (in my opinion) pretty poor quality with lots of lines and streaks. All data is from IrfanView.

[John_Ha]

If I summarise the issue it is

"My document contains both greyscale images and colour images so I am forced to print the document with the printer set to colour mode - ie using all three colours.

When I print with the printer set to Colour mode, the greyscale images have colour tinges. When I print with the printer set to Black and White mode, my greyscale images print OK without colour tinges."

As such, it is a printer problem.

For a workaround,

1 set the coloured items to white in the ODT and print the page with the printer set to B&W mode. The greyscale now prints OK, without colour
2 Set the colour of black text to white, images to 100% transparent until only the colouered items are left. Overprint the original with the print set to Color mode.

You now have good greyscale images with coloured areas.

To diagnose the problem, read the printer manual. I downloaded and looked at the Epson WorkForce WF-3540 All-in-One Printer manual. On page 73 it says

10. Select a Color option:
• To print a color document or photo, select the Color setting.
• To print text and graphics in black or shades of gray, select the Black/Grayscale setting.

Are you using the Black/Grayscale setting?

On page 79 it says (and see pages 80, 81 for details)

2. Select one of the following Color Correction options:
• Select Automatic to automatically adjust the sharpness, brightness, contrast, and color saturation
for your image.
• Select Custom and click the Advanced button to manually adjust the color correction settings or
turn off color management in your printer software.
• Select Image Options to access additional settings for improving printed images.

Have you set the color correction settings away from their default values?

Read the chapters Replacing Ink Cartridges and Maintenance Boxes, Adjusting Print Quality and Solving Print Quality Problems

A Google search with epson 3540 color mode print greyscale picked up this Amazon review

PS AN UPDATE... I did not use my Epson WF-3540 for a month. When I returned and resumed working with it, the YELLOW and CYAN did not print. I used the built-in Head Cleaner (Setup>Maintenance>Head Cleaning) and the yellow resumed to about 50%, but the cyan only printed a couple dots. After using the built-in Head Cleaner numerous times with no further benefit (and even changing the color cartridges with no benefit), I purchased a 4-ounce bottle of PRINT HEAD CLOG BUSTER by Inkmizer(dot)com (they are on Amazon as "A Bowl Of Cherries"). The man I spoke to was friendly and knowledgeable and even emailed directions to me. The product came quickly and with everything necessary. It was easy to use -- just a few drops on the resting pad, let soak, run the head cleaner, and test print. The first time I tried this, I let it sit overnight. In the morning, all of the yellow and most of the cyan was printing again. I soaked the resting pad a second time letting it sit over the weekend. Come Monday morning all colors were printing beautifully again. I am sure the problem was caused by my month-long absence which allowed the ink in the heads to dry up. I would hate for anyone to have the same issue and think the printer was ruined. This was a quick and inexpensive DIY fix that required no technical expertise.

The Epson FAQ Q:How do I print in black/grayscale only? says

A: Open a document, then follow the steps below for your operating system to select Black/Grayscale or Grayscale in the printer driver.

Note: To keep the print head clear and ready to print, the printer uses a small amount of ink from all the cartridges whenever it prints. Even if you select Black/Grayscale or Grayscale, some color ink is still being used. Black/Grayscale or Grayscale is not recommended for printing black-and-white photos.

[kenno3]

1 Check your cartridges. Is the nozzle slightly blocked? Is it nearly empty? How does it print a full C? Full M? Full Y?

I don't have green ink, only Blue, Red, yellow, and Black. Nozzle check prints ok. I was having problems with black nozzle days earlier, but I cleaned it, and the print check passes now.

2 Check your printer. It appears that it is using the three colours to print this grey. Why?

a) Is it because the printer has a mode which says use three colours instead of black?

I don't know. Im choosing to print as color, when I print a grayish image that has a red frame over it. But I don't see any setting to print blacks, using 3 colors.

b) Or is it because the image being sent to the printer itself is not genuine greyscale, and is asking for RGB = [97, 71, 98], which means the printer must use three colours. As this is my image which I know is greyscale [57, 57, 57] PNG I am 100% certain AOO is not "introducing the colours" - I am certain the image being sent is OK.

Here is the scan of the print out, of your image. The real print out shows no color. Only black tones. But I scanned in color (to control the same settings for our tests); so the scan shows some color, which does not actually appear on the print out. If I scanned in b/w then it would defeat the purpose of you checking what color it printed as?

Code: Select all

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/541957/EPSON082-2-jpg.html

3 Why is [57, 57, 57] being printed as [97, 71, 98]? Is it because the gamma of R and B has been increased (by the printer??) such that 57 goes to 97/98 whereas the gamma of the G has only been increased from 57 to 71?

I am 99% certain it is a problem with your printer. Can you print a test page with it? The printout is (in my opinion) pretty poor quality with lots of lines and streaks.

All data is from IrfanView.[/edit]

I will save one of my images as PNG 8 color, gray scale. Then upload it for you to see if its using one of the problem gray colors.

Also, I don't think your image is conclusive to identify if my printer is changing colors... since your image is only in gray tones, thus no color, thus even when I print in color, it is not trying to print with colored ink. But my problem is printing in colored mode, when a real color needs to be used (red), which seems to be turning grays into colored too.
So the test image should be: your special grays, with a red dot in the image, to make sure that it printed with the same conditions as with Writer.

[John_Ha]

We are now repeating a test you have already done, but it will make it clear to you. (My test with image.odt was guaranteed greyscale images, with a coloured square and red border.)

The printer ink colours are Cyan, Magenta and Yellow, and the fourth ink is black - known as CMYK.

1 Do not set the printer to B&W mode.

This means the printer will print in colour mode

2 Print greyscale.pdf.

This is only greyscale and it has 21 colours in it (I counted them by extracting the image to IrfanView). If your printer is working properly there will be no colour tinges because this is greyscale, so the CMYK values will all be [0, 0, 0, black_value]. This means no coloured ink will be used, and the greys will be printed with the black ink (apart from the Epson web site comment about a tiny bit of colour).

3 Print greyscale_plus_red.pdf.

This is greyscale, plus some red, and has 22 colours in it (I counted them by extracting the image to IrfanView). If your printer is working properly there will be no colour tinges in the greyscale because the CMYK values will all be [0, 0, 0, black_value] and therefore print with the black ink only. The red (RGB 255, 0, 0) will print as red [0, 1, 1, 0] - ie using only Magenta and Yellow inks.

If you get colour tinges printing either PDF, your printer is faulty.

[John_Ha]

Hi, please help? Ive been awake 18 hours. Tried search for 10 mins, did not find. ... Please help ty.

We have tried to help so please let us know how you got on with this test - your experience will help others with similar problems.

If it has solved the problem, please edit your original post [Solved].

[kenno3]

Hi john and others. I didn't forget about you guys.
Sorry I had a big mailing deadline to complete. Now im back and will try your test, then post an update.

Update:
My Printer seems to be the issue
The gray only version printed in black/white.
But the color version printed with a color tone. That's annoying that the printer automatically uses color on its own to keep nozzle clean. I don't need that. I wish there was a way to turn it off.

If I set to print in color, for a black/white image only, then it wont try to use colored ink. So Image 3 is the gray version, which I opened in draw, then added red text to make sure color mode was on. But I went to Print > Properties > "More Options" Tab > set to "Custom"... Then click "Advanced" Tab > set to "No Color Adjustment." The grayish image (set to "grayscale" in Draw) still prints with colored ink, for the gray tones, but maybe less so than version 2 (original color mode without any setting change with my printer, or maybe it was because I printed #3 in Draw, and #2 in MS PDF viewer).

Anyways, your method to print black text, with colored objects as white, then print the colored on the same paper.. would work... just not for my project because I had over 100 pages to print. Thanks for the help.
So my next question would be if I had a better printer, does the grayscale option in Writer (for images), work (at setting gray images to printer friendly gray tones - your special gray colors)?

Code: Select all

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/542903/color-scan-test-png.html

[John_Ha]

The gray only version printed in black/white.

... because it was only using the black ink.

But the color version printed with a color tone. That's annoying that the printer automatically uses color on its own to keep nozzle clean. I don't need that. I wish there was a way to turn it off.

I don't have a colour printer so I have reached the limits of my knowledge. You would be much better asking your questions on an Epson printer forum than on a wordprocessor forum. What I would think happens in colour mode is:

1 A genuine grey (ie R=G=B) should print with C=M=Y=0 and black_value, so it should not have any colour shading. BUT some printers might deliberately use colour inks to print greys - coloured inks are more expensive than black, so they make more money.
2 Any colour used to keep nozzles clean would be small and I doubt you could see it.

So my next question would be if I had a better printer, does the grayscale option in Writer (for images), work (at setting gray images to printer friendly gray tones - your special gray colors)?

Yes - if you put an image into Writer, and use writer to set it to greyscale, Writer sets R=G=B. You can prove this yourself - take a colour image and put it in Writer. Set it to greyscale. Export it to a PDF. Highlight the image in the PDF and copy it to an image editor. Use the colour picker tool to measure the colour of various pixels - all will have R=G=B.
It is difficult to analyse your upload as the quality isn't very good - I don't know whether I am looking at printer errors, or scanner errors.

The best things for you to do are:

1 Visit an Epson forum
2 "phone a friend" with a colour printer and try that and compare, using my PDF files - they are guaranteed greyscale.
3 Try and find an "Epson test image" and see if it prints greys with a colour tinge.

[RoryOF]

@Jphn_Ha: I've checked your two files on my Epson WP4535; as far as I can ascertain by close inspection (8x magnifier) they are both giving greyscale B&W - if there is any colour contribution it is minuscule. The greyscale is grey not tinted. I was a photographer and printer at various stages in my life, so I am fairly confident of my colour-perception skills.

[John_Ha]

Rory

Thanks

Kenno - unless there is some maintenance you can do (check the manual, run the Epson tests etc), or it is faulty ink cartridges (swap out for new ones), it looks like it's time for a new printer ...

[kenno3]

Hi guys. Thanks to everyone for the help and input. How would you like me to label this thread since it doesn't seem to be a Writer error, yet the issue isn't fixed for me, due to my printer? However, your double printing method would work for people (with smaller printing jobs).

It is difficult to analyse your upload as the quality isn't very good - I don't know whether I am looking at printer errors, or scanner errors.

I think the scan is bad ( I scanned at the highest settings, but the scan looks different than the actual print, and the print wasn't perfect to begin with - but it did have colorized grays, indicating a printer limitation).

Kenno - unless there is some maintenance you can do (check the manual, run the Epson tests etc), or it is faulty ink cartridges (swap out for new ones), it looks like it's time for a new printer ...

You showed that link from the printer website, which says it uses color automatically when printing some color, to clean itself.. so then that would mean the color I'm getting is working as designed (from the printer company's viewpoint). I ran other checks and cleaning, nothing changed, so it seems to be a printer limitation.

Thanks again.

kenno3's file prints correctly for me, without any adjustment, on Epson WP4535; it gives a result like John_Ha's test-color-print_.pdf.

I think it must be a driver/setting problem for his printer. What printer model?

Also thanks for letting me know your printer model which does work. Perhaps I can get a better printer like yours. Yours looks like mine, except without a touchscreen?

[RoryOF]

My printer is Epson wp4535. There is an entire range of these. Had I any choice I'd get one without fax and bigger input tray, but this model was in stock. No complaints after 10k prints.

[John_Ha]

You showed that link from the printer website, which says it uses color automatically when printing some color, to clean itself.. so then that would mean the color I'm getting is working as designed (from the printer company's viewpoint).

No. I would have thought that only a tiny amount of colour was printed to clear the nozzles and this would be virtually invisible. Rory's printer no doubt also prints a tiny bit of colour to keep the nozzles clear, but he cannot see it in his printout.

I think you are getting much too much colour because there is another problem.

My printer driver has an Advanced setting which gives these colour options - does yours have the same?

You will do much better if you ask your questions in the Epson Printer forum - they know all about your printer. This is an OpenOffice forum!