Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
Calc's sub-forum "Range Functions" could dissolve completely. It is a collection of unrelated posts. Everything related to the original intention is cluttered across other forums.
AFAIK , the original intention was a separate forum about list processing in spreadsheets. This category could take a reasonable amount of threads (aprox. 20% of all sheet issues), but many people think that this is the main purpose of a spreadsheet anyways.
However, I believe the original intention was right. List processing deserves it's own sub-forum, but the distinction is not reasonable for newbees.
What could be done to give a second try?
- Rename to "List Processing"
- Write a sticky introduction (keywords: menu "Data", normalized vs. crossed, split/filter/sort lists, consolidate/aggregate lists, import/export lists, ...)
Huh, this introduction is going to be huge. It would include dozends of nearly undocumented or missing features, bugs, glitches and workarounds.
AFAIK , the original intention was a separate forum about list processing in spreadsheets. This category could take a reasonable amount of threads (aprox. 20% of all sheet issues), but many people think that this is the main purpose of a spreadsheet anyways.
However, I believe the original intention was right. List processing deserves it's own sub-forum, but the distinction is not reasonable for newbees.
What could be done to give a second try?
- Rename to "List Processing"
- Write a sticky introduction (keywords: menu "Data", normalized vs. crossed, split/filter/sort lists, consolidate/aggregate lists, import/export lists, ...)
Huh, this introduction is going to be huge. It would include dozends of nearly undocumented or missing features, bugs, glitches and workarounds.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
Agreed. "Range functions" meant named ranges etc. to me, and I always wondered why it got its own forum. "List Processing" is less ambiguous but I suspect still meaningless to most people, certainly first timers.
"Lists & Databases" would work, but personally I'd want to see a disclaimer-style description alongside such as "Spreadsheets are a very bad idea for storing databases, but most end-users have no alternative, and millions do it, so here's a forum anyway...".
"Lists & Databases" would work, but personally I'd want to see a disclaimer-style description alongside such as "Spreadsheets are a very bad idea for storing databases, but most end-users have no alternative, and millions do it, so here's a forum anyway...".
- kingfisher
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Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Only 9 topics. It seems that most people don't get it. I use Data Ranges but have no knowledge of Data Pilot, so I question whether the two necessarily belong together. I don't even know what a DBMS is. Data Pilot and DBMS seem to be too specialised to warrant a separate board.
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Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
OK, so these deserve to be moved to the API forum:
how to define print areas by macro?
Determining, saving and going back to a range?
The remaining 7 belong to the main Calc forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization linking to:
http://phlonx.com/resources/nf3/ (starting with a spreadsheet example)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283878
Once you've got a spreadsheet table as follows ...
- each column describes one property of row-items
- each row describes exactly one item.
- the count of column is fixed (e.g. no columns for each subsequent day or category)
- sort order does not change the meaning of data (no relations between rows)
... you've got a list (normalized table of some form).
Lists are "machine readable" in a broad sence. And this is what the "Range Functions" do. You can apply data pilots, sub-totals, filters, consolidation, all the D-functions, SUMIF, COUNTIF, SUMPRODUCT and lookups across other tables. All this can not work well with a common spreadsheet table designed like this:
It is done as in the old paper days, where spreadsheets where pinned on walls. They are not processable as lists.
You need complex 2-D lookups and it is near impossible to get the sum for "Joe" in year 2007
how to define print areas by macro?
Determining, saving and going back to a range?
The remaining 7 belong to the main Calc forum.
Calc does not deal with DBMS. This is what Base does before it exposes tables to other components such as Calc. What most users, even advanced spreadsheet users, do not consider is normalization:kingfisher wrote:Data Pilot and DBMS seem to be too specialised to warrant a separate board.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization linking to:
http://phlonx.com/resources/nf3/ (starting with a spreadsheet example)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283878
Once you've got a spreadsheet table as follows ...
- each column describes one property of row-items
- each row describes exactly one item.
- the count of column is fixed (e.g. no columns for each subsequent day or category)
- sort order does not change the meaning of data (no relations between rows)
... you've got a list (normalized table of some form).
Lists are "machine readable" in a broad sence. And this is what the "Range Functions" do. You can apply data pilots, sub-totals, filters, consolidation, all the D-functions, SUMIF, COUNTIF, SUMPRODUCT and lookups across other tables. All this can not work well with a common spreadsheet table designed like this:
Code: Select all
August 2007
v > 1 2 3 ... 31
Joe
Jim ...values...
Pat
You need complex 2-D lookups and it is near impossible to get the sum for "Joe" in year 2007
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
+1Villeroy wrote:OK, so these deserve to be moved to the API forum:
how to define print areas by macro?
Determining, saving and going back to a range?
The remaining 7 belong to the main Calc forum.
As said in another post just made:
Categorisation (sub-forums) can help when there is a high volume of posts, but in this case as noted above there are only 7 (legitimate) topics in here. I would think that this could be dissolved at least for now. If posts in this forum are tagged somehow before being moved, and any other new posts on this subject are tagged in the same way in the Calc forum, then the subforum could always be reinstated in the future if a need is perceived.acknak wrote:...for newbies to find and use the first time ... the large number of forum choices we present, has to be rather intimidating.
Shall we do this?
James
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- DrewJensen
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Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
+1 for the removal
Former member of The Document Foundation
Former member of Apache OpenOffice PMC
LibreOffice on Ubuntu 18.04
Former member of Apache OpenOffice PMC
LibreOffice on Ubuntu 18.04
[Push up]
OK admins,
Let's move!
Let's move!
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
I'm on it.
James
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Windows Easy Installation CDs & OOo on USB Keys, OOo for Mac OS X + Ubuntu CDs
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Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
OK, I've tagged all the topics that were in that forum [Range Functions] and moved...
Hope that's OK with everyone
Then deleted the Range Functions sub-forum.Villeroy wrote:OK, so these deserve to be moved to the API forum:
how to define print areas by macro?
Determining, saving and going back to a range?
The remaining 7 belong to the main Calc forum.
Hope that's OK with everyone
James
www.8daysaweek.co.uk - A User-Focused OOo site.
Windows Easy Installation CDs & OOo on USB Keys, OOo for Mac OS X + Ubuntu CDs
Please read: Survival Guide for the forum
OOo 3.1.1 on Ubuntu 9.x + Windows XPP, Mac OS X
www.8daysaweek.co.uk - A User-Focused OOo site.
Windows Easy Installation CDs & OOo on USB Keys, OOo for Mac OS X + Ubuntu CDs
Please read: Survival Guide for the forum
OOo 3.1.1 on Ubuntu 9.x + Windows XPP, Mac OS X
Re: Recommendation: Delete Calc>"Range Functions"(or renovate?)
Thank you.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice
Ubuntu 18.04 with LibreOffice 6.0, latest OpenOffice and LibreOffice