[Solved] Multiple questions related to saving docs

Discuss the spreadsheet application

[Solved] Multiple questions related to saving docs

Postby ThomasH » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:50 am

I'm not sure if it's ok to ask multiple questions in one thread but I didn't want to spam the beginner's topic.

1) What is the pro/cons of saving in ODS format vs. CSV? Will Excel users be able to open ODS format?

2) What's with the constant prompts to restore files every time I open LibreOffice Calc (for example)? I assume it is because I didn't explicitly save the file before I closed down the program last time. Is the program restoring from an autosave point? If, so why would I get prompted to do that end time when it doesn't look there is an option to NOT to do it. It seems like a process that could run in the background while the program is starting up. Am I missing something?

3) "Saving AS..." brings up "ALL Formats" as file type but there isn't a file extension at the end of the file name so if you don't explicitly select a file type at the bottom it isn't exactly that the file is going to be saved as a certain type without adding the file extension at the end of the file name. But then you get "filename.ods.ods" as the file name. Is this intentional or just a confusing detail that might be worked out in the future? "Saving as" without messing with the file type defaults saving in the OpenOffice format which you aren't going to know until after the fact. I'm sure I will get used to it, but it's not very intuitive. Here's my main question here: What's the point of the "All Formats" file type value? If you are going to default to ODS, why not just have that be the default dropdown value and let someone change it from there?

The context is that I'm an excel user coming to OpenOffice with a lot of bias and wondering if there is logic guiding the saving process or if the open source nature of the software means that it is just an organic development that could use some pruning? Point #3 seems like it would especially easy to implement and is strictly superior to the current version. Am I missing something?
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tagged solved
LibreOffice 6.0.7.3 on Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS
User avatar
ThomasH
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:15 am
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby FJCC » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:11 am

We encourage users to have one question per thread because it can get confusing when the responses to multiple questions get interleaved. I will answer your question #1. #2 should definitely have its own thread because you should not be getting prompted to restore files. Please explain in the new thread exactly what you are doing before you close LibreOffice.

LibreOffice can save in many formats including ODS, XLSX, XLS, and CSV. Saving in ODS is the safest because it is the native format and you will not lose any formatting or functionality during the save process. Excel can open ODS files. I do not know how well it handles them as I have not used Excel since the 2007 version. CSV is only a viable option if you do not want to save the formulas, formatting, charts etc in your spreadsheet. You will just export the cell values or text. LibreOffice seems to do a good job of handling XLSX files, so you can probably export to that format without much trouble. I would still keep an ODS version of the file, especially if it is complex.

I can't answer your question #3 because I don't use LibreOffice much. I agree that the All Formats label is not helpful.
Windows 10 and Linux Mint, since 2017
If your question is answered, please go to your first post, select the Edit button, and add [Solved] to the beginning of the title.
FJCC
Moderator
 
Posts: 7056
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:08 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby ThomasH » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:35 am

Am I going to have issues uploading product screenshots as a new user?
LibreOffice 6.0.7.3 on Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS
User avatar
ThomasH
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:15 am
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby FJCC » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:41 am

No, there is no restriction on uploading images.
Windows 10 and Linux Mint, since 2017
If your question is answered, please go to your first post, select the Edit button, and add [Solved] to the beginning of the title.
FJCC
Moderator
 
Posts: 7056
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:08 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby robleyd » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:07 am

Size and number are limited however.

[Forum] How to attach a document here Note maximum file size is 128K. If your file is larger, use a file sharing site such as Mediafire and post the link here. The link also contains information on how to anonymise your document if it contains confidential information.

You can significantly reduce the size of some images by reducing the number of colours to 256; how to do this varies depending on the image editor you use.

IIRC there is a limit of 5 attachments per post.
Cheers
David
Apache OpenOffice 4.2.0 Build 9820 alpha version - Slackware 14.2 - 64 bit
LibreOffice 6.0.7.3 - Slackware 14.2 - 64 bit
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4 - Windows 7 Virtual machine
User avatar
robleyd
Moderator
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:47 am
Location: Murbko, Australia

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby John_Ha » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:16 pm

See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files for why you should always work in and save files as .odt.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Manual, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and the Writer guide.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby jrkrideau » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:42 pm

ThomasH wrote:.

1) What is the pro/cons of saving in ODS format vs. CSV? Will Excel users be able to open ODS format?


Saving in .csv saves nothing but the numbers and text in the selected sheet of the spreadsheet.
So if you have a load of formatting, equations, etc, in the sheet, poof it is all gone.
2) What's with the constant prompts to restore files every time I open LibreOffice Calc (for example)?


Could be one of several reasons but it is likely that you had a crash or some other problem that left a lock file in the disc. I just started a file in LO and saved it under the name save.example.csv. LibreOffice created a lock file called .~lock.save.example.csv#. This is done to prevent multiple users messing about with the file at the same time.

Have a look around your directories for something like this and delete any you find. I believe you will have to enable "Show hidden files" to search for these files.
 Edit: To turn on "Hidden Files" you will see an icon in the upper right of the window with three horizontal bars. Select, the option is at the bottom of the list. 



3) "Saving AS..." brings up "ALL Formats" as file type but there isn't a file extension at the end of the file name so if you don't explicitly select a file type at the bottom it isn't exactly that the file is going to be saved as a certain type without adding the file extension at the end of the file name. But then you get "filename.ods.ods" as the file name.


This appears to be intentional. The (unstated) default is .odt. However you can Save in any format offered. For example I created the .~lock.save.example.csv# file in a new LO Calc sheet and saved directly to .csv.

The context is that I'm an excel user coming to OpenOffice with a lot of bias and wondering if there is logic guiding the saving process or if the open source nature of the software means that it is just an organic development that could use some pruning? Point #3 seems like it would especially easy to implement and is strictly superior to the current version. Am I missing something?


I do not think you are missing anything, you are just used to a differing set of assumptions. To some extent a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet whether it be Lotus 123, Excel, Gnumeric, or Calc but they all do certain things differently.

I have been using OOo -> AOO & LO for over a decade. Last year, I tried to use a university computer with Excel and nearly went crazy. Excel does things in really stupid ways! Well, okay, it does things differently.

BTW the reason the Save and Save As screens are the same probably is a question of coding efficiency. The program can use the same piece of code for both, thus reducing—to some minor amount—code bloat.
OpenOffice 4.1.6; Ubuntu 18.04
jrkrideau
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Kingston Ontario Canada

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby John_Ha » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:23 pm

The spreadsheet file is stored data. The program reads that data and processes it. If the program cannot read some data it won't process it.

The program writes data to the file. If the file does not have the capability of storing that data it will not be written.

So whenever using any application always store your data in the file format for that application. That way you know everything you have created will be saved. Do not switch off the warning AOO gives you when attempting to save as other than .odt/.ods/.odp etc formats. Read the warning - it's there for a reason and it is telling you something important!

Clipboard01.gif
Do not disable this warning!

Read the Tutorial for a longer explanation. In the diagram below (based on Writer files but applies to Calc files) .csv files are even "smaller" than .rtf file in terms of what they can store.
Attachments
writer and word.gif
.csv files, like .txt files, can only store limited information - all information "outside" the file is lost.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Manual, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and the Writer guide.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Multiple closely related questions related to saving doc

Postby ThomasH » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:11 am

Thanks to @robleyd and @FJCC for answering the image upload question.

Thank you @jrkrideau and @ for answers to the in-depth answers to my original questions.
LibreOffice 6.0.7.3 on Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS
User avatar
ThomasH
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:15 am
Location: Salt Lake City


Return to Calc

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests