[Solved] Best file format for CV/resume?

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[Solved] Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:25 pm

I've always had great difficulty - or should I say others have always had great difficulty - in opening my CV/resume when I've used OOW to create it. I can't tell you the number of times I receive replies to job applications, telling me they're unable to open my CV/resume. Heaven knows how many jobs this has lost me.

My last CV was created by a work coach (in what program I know not) but it was sent to me as a .docx file. I was able to open this okay with OOW, but now it seems no one else can open it. I've tried opening it myself in other programs - Wordpad tells me it can't be opened because "This document is either corrupt or protected under Rights Management" and while Notepad opens it, it's just a block of code saying "NUL NUL NUL NUL"

I'm not looking for the whys and hows, or any complicated explanation (which will likely just go over my head anyway) but if someone can just advise me on the best format to use, so that others can open it in whatever program it is they might be using, I'd be very very grateful.

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by OurJud on Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:20 pm

If you are given a choice, your best solution is probably to save as a PDF - everyone and her dog, her dog's dog, and her dog's dog's fleas has heard of and can read PDF files. If you are instructed to submit a .doc or a .docx file then you have to do so.

OurJud wrote:My last CV was created by a work coach (in what program I know not) but it was sent to me as a .docx file. I was able to open this okay with OOW, but now it seems no one else can open it.

That should not happen. It could be a "Windows thing", where when someone receives a file, Windows blocks the file, and the recipient needs to download it to their desktop > right-click it > click Unblock. Can you test that be sending it to someone you trust?

That being said I am confused. You say you are using AOO but while AOO can read .docx files, AOO cannot save .docx files. So,please be precise. What file are you sending people? The .docx you were sent? Or you edited the .docx (using LO?) and you saved it as a .docx which you sent and they cannot open? Or you edited the .docx file with AOO and saved it as a .odt which you sent and they cannot open?

Can you please upload the file you sent which they cannot open so it can be analysed. You can obscure all data without affecting the structure too much (lines will spill differently because different characters have different widths) by changing every alphabetic character to an " x ", and every digit to an "
n " with

Edit > Find and Replace
Tick Regular expressions (under More ...)
Find box [:alpha:]
Replace box x
click Replace all
and
Find box [:digit:]
Replace box n
click Replace all

Now for the rant ...

It is the combined ignorance and arrogance of the business world in general which says that ".doc or .docx is a the standard for text files" and "everybody should buy a copy of MS Word" and "Ugh! What's a .odt file? I've never seen one of them?"

.doc and .docx are not the standard for text files - they are examples of proprietary standards for data files and they are owned, and changed at whim, by a profit making company called Microsoft.

There are other standards for files many of which, like the standard AOO and LO use, are International Standards Organisation Open Standards which are not owned by profit making companies and are free for any and everyone to use.

The Open Document Format for Office Applications (ODF), also known as OpenDocument, is a ZIP-compressed XML-based file format for spreadsheets, charts, presentations and word processing documents. It was developed with the aim of providing an open, XML-based file format specification for office applications.

The standard was developed by a technical committee in the Organization for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards (OASIS) consortium. It was based on the Sun Microsystems specification for OpenOffice.org XML, the default format for OpenOffice.org, which had been specifically intended "to provide an open standard for office documents."

In addition to being an OASIS standard, it was published as an ISO/IEC international standard ISO/IEC 26300 – Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument).


See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files for a discussion.

If someone insists on a .doc or .docx file then be sure to keep your content simple and don't do anything too fancy. Borrow someone else's MS Word to be sure it looks OK. Or be a lemming and buy MS Word. Or try and persuade the company to use MS Word to open the .odt you sent - MS Word opens .odt files.
Last edited by John_Ha on Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:38 pm

Thanks for the reply, @John_Ha. I can still email this to you if you require.

Anyway, here's the file.

CV_test.docx
(22 KiB) Downloaded 16 times


NB: I sent the file by email. I just replied to the email I received so I don't know if it will come direct or via the forum or what.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:55 pm

Thanks. I opened CV_text.docx from your post above with AOO 4.1.6 without any problem.

However when I unzip CV_text.docx it seems very strange. Every other .docx file I have examined has a folder in it called \word, and within \word there is a file called WordDocument which contains the text and formatting.

Normal.gif
Normal .docx file structure when unzipped

Your .docx file does not have a \word folder and your WordDocument file is stored in the top level.

Your file.gif
CV_text.docx file structure when unzipped

So it could be that AOO can handle this type of .docx file, but MS Word, which businesses are probably using, cannot.

How did you save this .docx file after changing all text to x? What program did you use? Exactly how did you do it?
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:05 pm

John_Ha wrote:So it could be that AOO can handle this type of .docx file, but MS Word, which businesses are probably using, cannot

That seems to be the case. MS WordPad can open .docx files but cannot open this one and gets the error message you mention.

So how did you create this file?

What program, Apache OpenOffice or LibreOffice, did you use to create CV_test.docx? I think you must be using LibreOffice or even Google Documents.

A thought. See Information Rights Management in Office which I quickly found by Googling the error message.

Has your work coach set the Information Rights Management in his or her MS Word so that only you and (s)he can view the document? If AOO does not support that Information Rights Management then I can view the document but any program, like MS Word or MS WordPad, which does support Information Rights Management will not be able to open it. If so, you need to have strong words with your work coach while asking him or her to unset the Information Rights Management ...

I should have followed the advice I often give to so many others: Read the error message carefully - it is trying to tell you what is wrong!
Attachments
Clipboard01.gif
Last edited by John_Ha on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby Villeroy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:21 pm

The best file format for CV and any other type of document is PDF unless the receipient is supposed to co-edit the document. When you send an edition of a photograph, your music record or movie you don't send Photoshop files or the formats used by your multimedia editors. You send common media formats like jpg, mp3, mp4 or what ever which can be consumed on any device, any system with dozends of viewer applications.

On my Linux Laptop I can open docx with LibreOffice (legitimate successor of OpenOffice) and with Microsoft's viewer for MS Word documents (no longer availlable because MS wants full control). LibreOffice can export to PDF just like OpenOffice can do. Any other application that is able to print stuff onto paper sheets can also print to a virtual PDF printer.
Opening both PDF files side by side, they look identical. All my software uses A4 paper size.

A virtual PDF printer is a software that introduces itself as a printer to the operating system. Every printing software can print to it as if it were a true printer device. The resulting PDF goes to a folder. You can open your docx with OpenOffice, LibreOffice, MS software and some other products, check out which one interpretes docx best (it should always be the MS software since MS makes docx as difficult as possible in order to be incompatible and make other software look dull) and then print to PDF.
Attachments
Microsoft_Word_Viewer_-_CV_test.docx_x-generated_files.pdf
Opened with MS Word Viewer under Wine, printed to PDF
(54.43 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
LibreOffice6.0_-_CV_test.docx_x-generated_files.pdf
Opened with LibreOffice 6.0, exported to PDF
(47.32 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:36 pm

Thanks for the help everyone.

A quick summery of how the file came into existence. I was shown a CV layout I liked at a workshop, and the tutor said he'd re-do my CV using the same styling. He emailed me the CV as a .docx file, but I have no idea what program he used or what restrictions he may have put on it.

When I scrambled the CV for this thread, I opened the original with OOW, made the changes, then went to 'save as'. I chose .doc for MS Word 97/2000/XP and added '.docx' to the end of the file name. Then I hit save and choose 'Keep this format' when prompted.

Anyway, if PDF can be opened with anything, then I'll stick to that in the future.

Thanks again.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby John_Ha » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:52 pm

OurJud wrote:When I scrambled the CV for this thread, I opened the original [.docx file] with OOW, made the changes, then went to 'save as'. I chose .doc for MS Word 97/2000/XP and added '.docx' to the end of the file name.

You cannot do that! What you did was save it as a .doc file. Changing the qualifier does not change the contents. It's no wonder the .docx file looked strange because it is not a .docx file - it is a .doc file with the wrong qualifier. It is no wonder you have problems.

An analogy: You have a tin of plums. You take off off the label and replace it with a label saying marmalade. Would you expect the plums magically to change into marmalade?

Please contact your work coach and ask them if they have used Information Rights Management. In the meantime do the following

1. Open the .docx file
2. Press Ctrl+A - that selects everything
3. press Ctrl+C - that copies everything
4. File > New > Text document
5. go to the new document > Ctrl+V - that pastes everything.
6. Save the new document as a .odt file with a new name - eg Fred.odt. That is your Master from now on. I have stripped out the Information Rights Information.
7. Now create a file to send to an employer. Open Fred.odt. File > Save As > choose MS Word 97/2000/XP .doc. Save the file as Fred.doc.

Send Fred.doc to any employer. Anyone can read it.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:20 pm

John_Ha wrote:In the meantime do the following

1. Open the .docx file
2. Press Ctrl+A - that selects everything
3. press Ctrl+C - that copies everything
4. File > New > Text document
5. go to the new document > Ctrl+V - that pastes everything.
6. Save the new document as a .odt file with a new name - eg Fred.odt. That is your Master from now on. I have stripped out the Information Rights Information.
7. Now create a file to send to an employer. Open Fred.odt. File > Save As > choose MS Word 97/2000/XP .doc. Save the file as Fred.doc.

Send Fred.doc to any employer. Anyone can read it.


Great! Thanks very much.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:03 pm

John_Ha wrote:1. Open the .docx file
2. Press Ctrl+A - that selects everything
3. press Ctrl+C - that copies everything
4. File > New > Text document
5. go to the new document > Ctrl+V - that pastes everything.
6. Save the new document as a .odt file with a new name - eg Fred.odt. That is your Master from now on. I have stripped out the Information Rights Information.
7. Now create a file to send to an employer. Open Fred.odt. File > Save As > choose MS Word 97/2000/XP .doc. Save the file as Fred.doc.

Send Fred.doc to any employer. Anyone can read it.


I tried this today, @John_Ha, and it didn't work. Firstly, when I save it as an .odt and then try to open it, it opens it as an image?? I have to say 'Open with' to get it to open with OOW.

Then when I save it as a .doc to send to employers, it will only open with OOW. If I open it with wordpad/notepad it's just code and symbols??
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby jrkrideau » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:17 pm

Are you sure that you opened the CV_test.docx or the original of that file?

It sounds like you are somehow dealing with a PDF file not a docx or odt file.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:32 pm

jrkrideau wrote:Are you sure that you opened the CV_test.docx or the original of that file?

It sounds like you are somehow dealing with a PDF file not a docx or odt file.


No, I have now saved it as a PDF, but all this happened before I'd resorted to that.

I've no doubt it's my fault, but all the time I've been using OOW I seem to have nothing but trouble saving my files in a format that can be opened by others and other programs.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:45 pm

Okay, I'm now convinced I have a corrupt copy of this program. I've just carried out the following test:

Opened OO Writer.
Chose 'Text Document'
Wrote the words 'This is a test'
File >> Save as >> (file name) test >> (save as type) Microsoft Word 97/2000/XP (.doc)
Chose 'Keep current format'
Close the program
Right click file I've just created and open with Notepad, and then Wordpad. Attached images show what I get when I try to open it with these programs.

wordpad_test_grab.png


notepad_test_grab.png
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby Villeroy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:21 pm

Everything is fine with that file. You need a computer course.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:36 pm

Villeroy wrote:Everything is fine with that file. You need a computer course.

Would you care to explain that comment. How is everything 'fine' ?
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby robleyd » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:01 am

Why would you expect Notepad - a simple text editor - to open and display a word processing document?
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:30 am

robleyd wrote:Why would you expect Notepad - a simple text editor - to open and display a word processing document?


Why not? It would be more apt to me, to ask why programs like Notepad/Wordpad can't display a single line of text.

All I wanted to know is how I could send off copies of my CV to prospective employers, confident it could be opened by them, regardless of OS/word processor being used.

PDF seems like it may give me that, but one thing's for sure; I wouldn't be asking all these questions and having such difficulty if I'd used MS Word.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby robleyd » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:04 am

It would be more apt to me, to ask why programs like Notepad/Wordpad can't display a single line of text.


Because the word processing document isn't a single line of text. It also has to contain such information as page size, font face, size and effects and margins to mentions just a few; the file may also be stored in compressed (zipped) format. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_format for example. Or search the internet for 'file format' using your preferred tool - this is beyond the scope of this forum.

I wouldn't be asking all these questions and having such difficulty if I'd used MS Word.

If another product is best for you to work with, by all means use it.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:22 am

robleyd wrote:
It would be more apt to me, to ask why programs like Notepad/Wordpad can't display a single line of text.


Because the word processing document isn't a single line of text. It also has to contain such information as page size, font face, size and effects and margins to mentions just a few; the file may also be stored in compressed (zipped) format. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_format for example. Or search the internet for 'file format' using your preferred tool - this is beyond the scope of this forum.

I wouldn't be asking all these questions and having such difficulty if I'd used MS Word.

If another product is best for you to work with, by all means use it.


Thank you. And I appreciate you taking the time to explain, rather than resorting to assumptions and sarcastic remarks.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby robleyd » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:25 am

resorting to assumptions

Such as assuming that you can open a word processing document in any old software :lol:
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:12 am

robleyd wrote:
resorting to assumptions

Such as assuming that you can open a word processing document in any old software :lol:

Precisely.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby John_Ha » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:39 pm

Someone with skills can use the "wrong" program to open a word processing file to carry out diagnosis which is not possible by using the correct program.

The analogy is that a "doctor" uses the "correct program" and tries to fix you - she gives you a pill.

If that doesn't work, she passes you on to a surgeon who uses the "wrong program" - a knife - and cuts you open to find out what is wrong and fix it.

But that does not mean you should cut someone open with a knife because you don't have the skills, you would not understand what you are doing and you would not understand what you found if you did cut someone open.

The reason it was suggested that you need to go on a course about computers is because it is obvious that you are making fundamental, silly mistakes which demonstrate to those trying to help you that you don't understand what you are doing. We don't have the time or inclination to baby-sit you through simple fundamentals any more than we are prepared to taech you how to read or how to add numbers.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby OurJud » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:37 pm

John_Ha wrote:The reason it was suggested that you need to go on a course about computers is because it is obvious that you are making fundamental, silly mistakes which demonstrate to those trying to help you that you don't understand what you are doing. We don't have the time or inclination to baby-sit you through simple fundamentals any more than we are prepared to taech you how to read or how to add numbers.


I'll go and source a copy of MS Word, then. At least that program 'does what it says on the tin'. I'm sorry to have offended you all so badly with my stupidity.
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Re: Best file format for CV/resume?

Postby John_Ha » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:09 pm

Anyone who renames a .doc file to a .docx file is likely to be in trouble with MS Word as well.

My diagnosis of, and comments about, Rights Management are of course rendered completely invalid by your later post that you renamed Fred.doc to Fred.docx. It had never occurred to me that anyone would do that so I never thought of it as a possibility.

All you needed to do was send Fred.doc without renaming it.

You will note that AOO opened your incorrectly named Fred.docx quite happily and treated it as a .doc file.

In this respect MS Word and MS WordPad are not as good as AOO. When MS Word or MS WordPad attempt to open Fred.docx they, like AOO, see that the contents of the file (it has .doc contents) are not the same as the file qualifier (it has a .docx qualifier). MS Word and MS WordPad then give up, refuse to open the file even though it is a valid file, and give the user an incorrect error message. They should just have opened it, possibly giving the user an error message "Incorrect file qualifier".

OurJud wrote:I'll go and source a copy of MS Word, then. At least that program 'does what it says on the tin'. I'm sorry to have offended you all so badly with my stupidity.

There is a popular saying you need to know about: A bad workman always blames his tools. You don't "offend us with your stupidity" - if anyone is offended it is probably because you do not seem to take responsibility for your own actions nor recognise that your knowledge is insufficient and that you are at fault.
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