Bloating file

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Bloating file

Postby wendygoerl » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:17 pm

I've got version 3 on my desktop and version 4 on my laptop. I've been writing a book, mostly on my desktop, and it was nearly finished at about 30 MB. Then I worked on a copy on my laptop for a bit, added 100-200 words (no graphics)--and it saved to around 60 MB. Worked on it on my desktop--no major change to file size. Worked on my laptop--now it's around 100 MB. Worked on the desktop again, no major changes to file size. No I'm on my laptop again, trying to save my document again, and running into a problem because I don't have 130 MB available where I want to save it.

Why is my file size jumping 30 MB at a time when my document isn't growing by more than a few hundred words?
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Re: Bloating file

Postby RoryOF » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:20 pm

Have you /Edit /Changes /Record selected?

Any graphics?

What file format are you using?

 Edit: For me, a 200,000 word book (no graphics) is 480KB 
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Re: Bloating file

Postby Zizi64 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:04 pm

I've got version 3 on my desktop and version 4 on my laptop


It is not a good idea to edit a specific file with a very old and a newer version of any office suite...

Can you share the problematic file? ( You can not upload it directly onto this forum - the file size limit is 128 KiB in this forum. )
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Re: Bloating file

Postby John_Ha » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Try

1 File > New > text document
2 Insert > File ..., and pull in the bloated file
3 Save As ..., and save the new file.

Heavily edited files get "tangled" and this tidies them.

Zizi64 wrote:It is not a good idea to edit a specific file with a very old and a newer version of any office suite...

That is excellent advice.

See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files for why you should always work in and save files as .odt.

wendygoerl wrote:Now I'm on my laptop again, trying to save my document again, and running into a problem because I don't have 130 MB available where I want to save it.

It is never sensible to fill a disk so full that you have so little space left.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby wendygoerl » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm

I don't normally do "big" works on my laptop, but I was really pushing to get this book done, so I was working on it on my laptop while I was waiting for webpages to load. (My desktop is isolated, so it doesn't get updates.)

At the 30 MB size, it was about 58k with 61 illos. I added one illo and a couple hundred words and ended up around 60 MB. Then I added some more words, ending up at around 61k, 219 pages, and 100 MB. Then I edited down my endnotes, ending up at 217 pages and 135 MB. Yes, I'm talking ODT file-sizes.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby RoryOF » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:17 pm

To reduce file size, Link, not Embed, the illustrations; the best way to handle this is to make a directory for your project - in the initial instance I suggest at the root level of your hard disk, to keep paths simple. Place each illustration file in that directory, also your .odt file.
As you /insert /Picture : from File, make sure that Link is checked on the file selection box.

It is best to copy the entire project directory from one computer to the other when you wish to edit on the other computer. That way you ensure that you link to the latest revision of any picture.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby RoryOF » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 pm

It is also useful to edit the illustration files in a graphics editor, to trim them to size (or near size) and save then so that their resolution is 180 dpi (for normal) or 210 dpi (for excellent quality). In general there is no increase in quality by working in higher resolutions, as the naked eye does not see higher resolutions on the printed page at normal viewing distances.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby John_Ha » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:00 pm

See [Tutorial] Some useful hints on using images for a discussion on how best to handle images in Writer.

There is something badly wrong with the file. It could fail - be sure to have adequate backups.

What happened when you followed my earlier advice to remove the "tangles"? It should drastically reduce the file size.

If you want someone to look at the file upload it to a fileshare site or your Google Drive or Dropbox.
Last edited by John_Ha on Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby wendygoerl » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:04 pm

RoryOF wrote:It is also useful to edit the illustration files in a graphics editor, to trim them to size (or near size) and save then so that their resolution is 180 dpi (for normal) or 210 dpi (for excellent quality). In general there is no increase in quality by working in higher resolutions, as the naked eye does not see higher resolutions on the printed page at normal viewing distances.


Photo/publishing standard is 300 dpi or better. (Yes, over half of them are indeed photos.) I thought I had them all sized, but CreateSpace claims some of my graphics are low-res. You're the first person I've encountered that considers 210 dpi "excellent quality."
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Re: Bloating file

Postby Zizi64 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:20 pm

You're the first person I've encountered that considers 210 dpi "excellent quality."

Yes, 210 dpi IS excellent resolution in a textual document. It is more than enough for printing, and for the displays too.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby wendygoerl » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:55 pm

John_Ha wrote:Try

1 File > New > text document
2 Insert > File ..., and pull in the bloated file
3 Save As ..., and save the new file.

Heavily edited files get "tangled" and this tidies them.

:crazy:
Worst possible outcome. First I tried to cut-and-paste the old file into a new one: a 60-page cut turned into a 124-page paste, my Arabic-numeral endnoting turned into Roman-numeral endnoting, and --even though I formatted the page identically to the 6x9 original before I copied--the endnote pages formatted themselves to 8.5 x 11.

So I dumped that and tried your method of "inserting" the file. OpenOffice crashed. When I tried to reopen the file, it gave me a so-called "repaired" document that's in an 8.5x11" page, my document-specific paragraph formats are gone, the graphics are all over the place, it has Roman-numeral endnotes, and all of the endnote pages are 8.5 x 11" with the endnotes going all the way to the bottom of the page (totally ignoring the "bottom margin" setting).

I'm going to have to dig out one of my older versions and try to remember what edits I made to it.

P.S.
I see this blog is showing Office 3.4.1 on WinXP. I'm actually running 4.1.3.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby RoryOF » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:00 pm

You may find this file helpful when writing/formatting a book
http://documentation.openoffice.org/whitepapers/Creating_large_documents_with_OOo.odt
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Re: Bloating file

Postby Bill » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 pm

wendygoerl wrote:Worst possible outcome.

Never try anything that you haven't done before with the only copy of a file. Always experiment with an unimportant document or a copy first. I don't even open sample documents downloaded from the forum without making a copy first.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby wendygoerl » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:09 am

Bill wrote:
wendygoerl wrote:Worst possible outcome.

Never try anything that you haven't done before with the only copy of a file. Always experiment with an unimportant document or a copy first. I don't even open sample documents downloaded from the forum without making a copy first.



Look, when I write a book, I usually write it on my desktop, then when I get to the "final version," I copy it to a flashdrive and take it off to the internet to upload it through my laptop. Problem is, I keep finding little things wrong with the "final version" to tweak.

Oh, and guess what? The "repair" version is doing the SAME THING the original version did. It was around 30 MB when I created it, around 70 MB after I played with it. I just played with it again, and it's now 105,901 KB--AND IT'S NEVER BEEN OFF MY LAPTOP (i.e. ver 4.1.3 exclusively)!!!!!
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Re: Bloating file

Postby robleyd » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:56 am

wendygoerl wrote:[
P.S.
I see this blog is showing Office 3.4.1 on WinXP. I'm actually running 4.1.3.


Please consider updating your signature to reflect the current software you are using. How to update your signature
Cheers
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Re: Bloating file

Postby Hagar Delest » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:11 am

I remember such a thread in the forum about the file size increasing at each save but couldn't find it.

Do you have a version of the file in its roughly initial state (I mean the 30MB version)? Then I would copy it, change its extension to .zip and check what is in the /media folder, just to make sure there is no huge graphic.
But I think that this is likely a bug with something duplicating at each save operation. Is there any macro code in the file?
Can you upload it on a 3rd party file sharing site so that we can have a look?

You can alos try to delete the 2nd half of the document and see if the file still increases at saving. Then do that on the first half and so on to try to locate what part of the document could carry the root cause.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby RoryOF » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:15 am

Might it be this thread Hagar?

https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=83436

A quick check would be for the OP to start Navigator (F5 key) and see how many graphics are listed. The reported file size increase suggests that the graphics are duplications, perhaps being exactly superimposed on previous copies, so they are not easily detected.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby John_Ha » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:39 am

wendygoerl wrote:Worst possible outcome.

Not the worst outcome as it did not damage your original file which you still have.

wendygoerl wrote:First I tried to cut-and-paste ...
... tried your method of "inserting" the file.

If AOO cannot accept a paste of content, nor import a .odt file, it is because there is something wrong the content or wrong with the original .odt file. We therefore now know there is a problem with your file. Be very careful - you could lose everything.

What does File > Properties > General ..., show for Total edited time? and Version number? My guess is both are very large.

See [Solved] AOO stops responding when opening this one document for a file where lots of footnotes, which are similar to the endnotes you have, caused the problems.

When you say the page numbers increase in your file do they actually do so? or have lots of white gaps been inserted which cause the page numbers to increase?

If you want good advice, rather than guesswork, we need to see the file. I have sent you an email with my ID - send me the file and I will analyse it.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:57 pm

RoryOF wrote:Might it be this thread Hagar?

https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=83436

Indeed, I think so, well done!
I think we really need to see the actual file.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby John_Ha » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:52 pm

wendygoerl sent me the .odt file to examine. It was a .odt file and it was 173 MBytes.

I was extremely surprised to find that the .odt file had a folder called Versions, which was 146 MBytes. Inside Versions were files called Version1, Version2, Version3 and Version4. It seemed that AOO was somehow saving previous versions of the file within the .odt file. When unzipped, each of the VersionN files was shown to be a complete .odt file.

Clipboard5.gif

I asked wendygoerl if she was using an add-on or extension which was doing this but she was not.

Searching Help with versions showed that AOO has the ability to store previous versions of a file within the .odt file, and wendygoerl must have (inadvertently??) activated it, and this is what was causing the file to bloat.

Note: If any user decides to use Versions, be aware that the filesize can grow extremely quickly, as in this case, because all the images are saved in each version.

Versions
Saves and organises multiple versions of the current document in the same file. You can also open, delete, and compare previous versions.

To access this command...
Choose File - Versions

If you save a copy of a file that contains version information by using File - Save As, the version information is not saved with the file.

I advised wendygoerl that the image files were very big (some were 7 MBytes each, in total they added to 38 MBytes) and that they could be significantly reduced without losing any image quality by following the methods outlined in [Tutorial] Some useful hints on using images.

Showing that a problem has been solved helps others searching so, if your problem is now solved, please view your first post in this thread and click the Edit button (top right in the post) and add [Solved] in front of the subject.
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Re: Bloating file

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:26 am

"...Now when you save the file, both versions are saved in the same file."
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Docume ... g_versions

The
File - Versions - Always save a version at closing
option is swithed ON (accidentally?).

You can manage the recorded versions in an existing file (you can delete the unwanted ones) by usage the feature File - Versions:

Versions.png



And you can switch OFF the automatic version saving function if not needed it.
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