Writer Does Not Recognize Printer Paper Sizes

[KitchM]

Does anyone know if the ability to use all the printer's abilities will be incorporated into Writer soon?

If anyone wishes for an example, my HP Photosmart C3100 Series printer is a full-bleed printer. That means it prints to the edge of the paper.

In my case, the printer definition file has a setting for borderless 8.5x11 paper. Sadly, Writer does not see it. Because of this it is impossible to save the paper size with the document.

When that happens, it requires that the paper size always be set manually in the printer setup prior to printing. Those extra steps are a real pain, a huge oversight in software design and creates a situation where one wastes paper because of forgetting to set the right paper.

For instance, you can understand how Ctrl-P or selecting the Printer icon will always default to regular 8.5 by 11 paper with border limitations and pages missing parts of the document.

By the way, this means that the program is not WYSIWYG. I don't know if anyone noticed that, but that is a fact of what happens when the word processor does not base its display on the printer's output.

[LilZebra]

Printer drivers that control the printer are a part of the OS, not LibreOffice / OpenOffice per se.

What OS are you running? Windows, MacOS, Linux?

I was having problems printing graphics on my Canon i960 (ca. 2004) and so I must use a 3rd party driver, TurboPrint. There is similar software from the same company called PrintFab.

http://www.printfab.com/en/

http://www.turboprint.info/

TurbPrint Driver Info (Linux) for the HP PhotoSmart C3100 series:
http://www.zedonet.co/en_p_turboprint_d ... SmartC31xx

[Zizi64]

In my case, the printer definition file has a setting for borderless 8.5x11 paper. Sadly, Writer does not see it. Because of this it is impossible to save the paper size with the document.

You can set the paper size manually, and this property will be saved into the document file. If I remember exactly: It never was an automatic function in the OOo/AOO/LO.

[KitchM]

Sorry, forgot to post the details:
Xubuntu 14.04
Writer 4.1.4

Does anyone know of a WYSIWYG word processor?

[KitchM]

For Linux, of course.

[Hagar Delest]

You should add this information in your signature: How to update your software information signature.

[KitchM]

It is impossible for AOO to be WYSIWYG.

[RoryOF]

When you find a WYSIWYG word processor for linux, please let us know.

[John_Ha]

1. View > Text Boundaries to see what is happening.

2. Format > Page > Page ..., and set the margins to 0.

If your problem is solved please view your first post in this thread and click the Edit button (top right in the post) and add [Solved] in front of the subject.

[KitchM]

@Zizi64, no that won't work. One cannot save with document if the paper size is not seen and/or one cannot add another size.

@John_Ha, cannot set margins to 0; the program seems to think there are limitations.

But that would not solve the problem anyway. The program needs to recognize the paper sizes available and include them in the listing.

@Hagar. thanks but it changes from time to time and it is easy to forget to update it.

@RoryOF, the closest I've come was WordPerfect on Wine or in VirtualBox. Worked best in VB. Just wish AOO had better coding.

Thanks for trying everyone.

[Zizi64]

The program needs to recognize the paper sizes available and include them in the listing.

@Zizi64, no that won't work. One cannot save with document if the paper size is not seen and/or one cannot add another size.

Most of printers can not inform the op. sys and the other softwares about the actual inserted paper size. The property "available paper sizes" is a Standard (ot two Standards: European and American standards), and sometimes there are user defined sizes with endless variation numbers. How can a printer recognize an user defined (cutted) paper size without paper size sensors?

Some printers have manual papersize setting tools (some switches). They can inform the softwares about the state of the switches choosen by the user. But is works with some of the Standard sizes only, but not with the user defined sizes.


You MUST KNOW what size of the paper are you using. You need inform the office suite about the actual paper size. And the office suite will remember your selection: the AOO/LO will store the the choosen printer (type) and the paper size data into the actual document. You can decide if you want to use the stored values or not by adjusting of the property:
Tools - Options - (Preferences - Options on Linux) - Load/Save - General - Load printer settings with the documents.

[Zizi64]

Here is an example:

The driver of my Brother B&W laser printer inform me visually that the A3 size is available for the printer. But the printer can not handle the size A3, because it has not a paper tray for A3. And there is not any other option to push an A3 paper into the printer anyway... I think: this driver is a general driver for a whole printer "family". But this driver will send a wrong information for the other softwares about the available paper sizes. Maybe that is a reason why the softwares will not use this information from the printers.

[Zizi64]

And here is a sample for the User defined paper size (what is stored into the document) with zero margins:

Picture without margins but with saved custom page size.odt

(106.79 KiB) Downloaded 130 times

The size are in metric unit.

[John_Ha]

@John_Ha, cannot set margins to 0; the program seems to think there are limitations.

I can set margins to zero - see attached file. I get a warning that the margins are set outside of the printer range for my printer which is correct.

@John_Ha, The program needs to recognize the paper sizes available and include them in the listing.

No. You specify the paper size you want to use for the document. You then tell AOO which DRAWER you want to use.

As a relatively new poster you will find much useful information in the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials, the up to date Writer guide and the Writer Manual. May I suggest you bookmark the pages.

Press F1 to access the Help screen and search for your problem

The chapter headings in the manual are:

1 - Introducing Writer
2 - Setting up Writer
3 - Working with Text
4 - Formatting Pages
5 - Printing, Exporting, Faxing and E-Mailing
6 - Introduction to Styles
7 - Working with Styles
8 - Working with Graphics
9 - Working with Tables
10 - Working with Templates
11 - Using Mail Merge
12 - Tables of Contents, Indexes and Bibliographies
13 - Working with Master Documents
14 - Working with Fields
15 - Using Forms in Writer
16 - Customizing Writer – Keyboard shortcuts.

When a pop-up window opens, click the Help button for extensive help on that function - it is often more comprehensive than the manual.

Also, please always search the forum before posting a query as the same questions (like yours get asked again and again and again and again ...

[KitchM]

@Zizi64,

Most of printers can not inform the op. sys and the other softwares about the actual inserted paper size.

That's not correct. The whole system knows from the printer definitions which the installed driver shares thru-out the whole system. In Linux, we have a whole sub-system entitled CUPS which makes printers and their definition files available to all.

There should rarely be a need to create a special paper size for a particular program. Doing so just shows sloppy programming.

How can a printer recognize an user defined (cutted) paper size without paper size sensors?

Users should not define paper sizes. Normally this is done by having the software read the printer definition file, as already noted. Evidently, Writer partially fails in this.

Under Format>Page>Paper Format>Paper Tray, it shows that the selection is "(From printer settings)", which proves part of my point. If printer settings are used for anything, then why not use them for everything, such as for "Format"?

You MUST KNOW what size of the paper are you using. You need inform the office suite about the actual paper size.

No, the program MUST KNOW the paper sizes the printer can handle.

You clearly have a bad printer driver for your Brother printer. If A4 is available, then the by-pass tray would have an adjustable single or multi-sheet feeder, or there would be a separate tray that can be purchased. If it does not, then the driver does not know that printer as it should.

@ John_Ha, you were correct. This time it did not bellyache at me. However, that defeats the whole purpose of using a paper size definition. I believe I see your confusion. One must keep in mind that paper size and margins are separate issues.

By the way, the idea of using a “drawer” is somewhat archaic. Most printers do not have drawers. Some have trays, and most have paper-holding slots.

However, your first assumption is wrong. As a long time user of the program, I can assure you that the documentation leaves a lot to be desired in addressing all the issues faced by advanced users of word processors. Further, the pop-ups have very little to add.

Also, please always search the forum before posting a query as the same questions (like yours get asked again and again and again and again ...

Your second assumption was also incorrect. Please ask before assuming.

By the way, your attachment blocked all the formatting information, making it of no value when attempting to open it in the program.

Again, thanks to all for your input.

[Zizi64]

That's not correct. The whole system knows from the printer definitions which the installed driver shares thru-out the whole system.

There is a sample with a picture above: my printer (the driver of my printer) sends false information to the op.sys. (A3 page is in the list, but the printer can not handle the size A3)

And here are size informations from the support page:

Media Sizes/Standard Tray A4, Letter, B5(ISO/JIS), A5, A5 (Long Edge), B6(ISO), A6, Executive, Legal, Folio
Media Sizes/Manual Feed Slot Width 76.2 to 216 mm, Length 116 to 406.4 mm (Width 3.0" to 8.5", Length 4.6" to 16")
Media Sizes/Duplex Letter, Legal, FOLIO
Media Sizes/ADF Width 147.3 to 215.9 mm, Length 147.3 to 355.6 mm (Width 5.8" to 8.5", Length 5.8" to 14")

And the dimensions of the A3 paper are: 297 x 420 mm. And the A3 is in the list sent by the official driver. The drivers just are softwares like others. They have bugs, they contain general inhormations for more than one printer types...

[KitchM]

Like I pointed out, you appear to have a bad printer definition file and/or driver.

[Zizi64]

Like I pointed out, you appear to have a bad printer definition file and/or driver.

Maybe. But I am sure: not my printer driver is the only one driver that send false informations.

Otherwise see this "exreme" Draw application example:
How you can create an A2 size drawing on your computer (for printing in a print shop) if you have not an A2 size printer, and when the office suite will restricting you to the handled sizes, and the existing printer can handle max. A4 size. How you will able to select the desired A2 size for your drawing from the list readed from the printer?

[John_Ha]

Does anyone know of a WYSIWYG word processor?

Yes - try Apache OpenOffice - you can get it from http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html.

By the way, the idea of using a “drawer” is somewhat archaic. Most printers do not have drawers. Some have trays, and most have paper-holding slots.

You can always tell a pedant ... but never very much. I shall refrain from correcting you further apart from saying that my margin-less sheet works fine. If it does not for you, you have another problem.

Please read Survival Guide for the forum before posting again. We volunteer here to assist users to use the software as it is delivered - nothing else. We are not here to take complaints, not here to take requests for enhancements and not here to take bug reports.

[MPEcho]

@Zizi64,

No, the program MUST KNOW the paper sizes the printer can handle.

Oh, I don't know that's true. Years ago, older version of Ubuntu (8.04 IIRC) I had a printer that was capable of full bleed printing. (A Canon I think) But CUPS at the time didn't allow printing full bleed. The particular printer couldn't handle anything wider than US letter or legal. But I was able to send jobs to the printer specifying A3 paper and margins set to have a zero top margin (CUPS understood that) and the sides and margins set so that the printing area was 8.5 x 11. The printer's error handling simply centered and printed what it could, stopping at the edge of the page.

Fortunately, I didn't have to do much of that printing, because it was a kludge. But it worked. That's one of the events in my computing life that helped me learn that software can sometimes be tricked into doing something it's programmers never intended.

[KitchM]

@ Zizi64
You cannot. Neither the printer definition file nor AOO has an A2 in their listings. I guess one could try to create a custom sized document and then send it to your print shop people. Sorry, I got nothin' else.

@ MPEcho
Yes, sometimes we have to work with a kludge, and that's what I've been doing. We don't like it, but we do it. I just wish the programmers would fix the obvious flaw so we don't have kludge it. But thanks.

@ John_Ha
AOO is most certainly not a WYSIWYG word processor by definition.

I must take exception to your calling me a pendant. You evidently cannot handle my gentle correction of your lack of precision. Whenever we deal with anything related to computers we must be very precise. Your use of the word "drawer", most normally seen used in copiers and large or laser printers, is commonly incorrect, and it is clearly misleading in this context. You should have known that. I am not mislead because I know better, but there are millions out there who would not, and in that you do a disservice to the world.

I am also shocked by your narrow-mined view of your great value to the world. You failed to understand that each and every contributor is just as important as you. In fact, IMHO it is unlikely that you would find what we find. But more than that, there is absolutely no requirement on your part to interject yourself into the discussion. If you are not interested, please feel free to abstain.

I for one am not required in any way to appreciate your negative and unhelpful comments because I did not request them.

At the end of the day, it is obvious you could not answer my question. So again, what was it you contributed?

By the way, at Wikipedia we have a standard that states "Assume good faith (AGF)". You failed me in that.

Thank you.

[Zizi64]

You cannot. Neither the printer definition file nor AOO has an A2 in their listings.

You are ignorant. I wrote that it was a Drawing example:

Otherwise see this "ex(t)reme" Draw application example:

Yes, both of AOO and LO have such page size. See it in the Draw application.

A0_A1_A2 sizes in the draw application

[KitchM]

Why does it make a difference if it is a "drawing" example?

[Daiwe01]

Because paper sizes larger than A3 are generally considered engineering/architectural drawing sheet sizes.
An A2 (16.5 x 23.4 in) sheet is larger than most printers can use.

[KitchM]

Sorry but I'm of the USA size people group. My other printer does ledger size full bleed, which is 11x17 inches. The A sizes mean little to me as I never use them.

In any case, my query still stands, "What difference does it make?".

By the way, I have since found out that the printer definitions are indeed recognized by Writer, but Writer does not use them for some weird reason. Even more curiouser and curiouser.

[Zizi64]

In any case, my query still stands, "What difference does it make?".

please study it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size

[KitchM]

One can study a given subject all they want, but one will never get anywhere with it if the significance you applied to it is never explained.

[Zizi64]

One can study a given subject all they want, but one will never get anywhere with it if the significance you applied to it is never explained.

Explanation:
If you do not know anything about the Standard paper sizes, then you will not understand that: why is not a good idea to restrict the usable sizes to the paper size list of the actually installed printer.
How you will create a specific size of documents (Drawing or others) if your printer can not list (can not handle) it?

[John_Ha]

The thread topic is Writer Does Not Recognize Printer Paper Sizes.

That is quite correct.

Writer works by the user specifying the size of the paper (s)he wants to write on. (S)he can specify almost any size (s)he wants - 2 meters by 2 metres, as I have in the uploaded .odt file; or 2 mm x 2 mm if (s)he prefers.

Writer has no idea what printer the person will be using if they eventually decide to print the document. If they are on a laptop, they might go to a location with a multiplicity of different printers. They may even buy a new printer they do not currently have. Why on earth would Writer choose to "use only a paper size available on the printer currently attached to my PC"? What if no printer is attached - what would Writer do then???? Prevent the person writing anything??????

If the user elects to print his or her document, (s)he then has to decide how to do so on the available printer or printers. Clearly, a method suitable for Printer 1, which accepts A3 sheets, may be useless for Printer 2, which accepts A4 sheets, or Printer 3, which prints small labels.

[KitchM]

@ Zizi64
You are laboring under a mistaken assumption when you state:

If you do not know anything about the Standard paper sizes..

I am not sure where you got that idea, but it is not true.

You also stated:

...why is not a good idea to restrict the usable sizes to the paper size list of the actually installed printer.

That is also a false assumption. A word processor is most correctly programmed to output the page exactly as displayed. However, that cannot work if the printer is not capable. Therefore the printer's abilities must always be known first. It is precisely why problems continually come up when not following this age-old mandate.

A perfect example of this is that so many people have trouble printing envelopes from Writer.

Your last statement seemed odd in that you appear to turn 180 degrees to my point of view:

How you will create a specific size of documents (Drawing or others) if your printer can not list (can not handle) it?

Exactly my point.

@ John_Ha
If that is indeed the case as you state, then you should surely see the futility of the situation your statement implies:

If the user elects to print his or her document, (s)he then has to decide how to do so on the available printer or printers.

I see that effort as wasted if there is no solution to the "how". That is why the best word processors start with known formats that can indeed be printed by available printers. Otherwise the user must predetermine where they will take the file to have it printed.

It makes no sense to start any project unless one know the printer can handle it. Why bother?