Changing bullets

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Changing bullets

Postby Paul54 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:53 pm

At the moment we are using OO 2.4.1 Ubuntu 8.0.4.
When opening previous made documents the parts in the text with bullets, the bullets all have changed to another form.
We always use a little round black bullet. Now they have changed to f and other signs.
It concerns documents made with this version and older versions.
This is very annoying and time consuming.

Has anybody got an idea how to fix this problem?

Thanks, Paul
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Re: changing bullets

Postby foxcole » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:07 pm

Welcome to the forum, Paul.

Paul54 wrote:When opening previous made documents

Could you please be more specific? What program and version were those documents created in? Were they also created on the Ubuntu OS or a different one? What file format are they -- are they in the OOo native .odt format, for example, or are you working with .doc files or some other format?

Do you know how the bullets were applied, exactly -- do you know if they were direct formatted using the bullet tool, or was an actual list style applied (and if styled, was it done using the paragraph style or directly applied from the Bullets and Numbering styles)?

Could you perhaps "scrub" one of those documents (clear out any private or proprietary content) and post it here as a sample?
Cheers!
---Fox

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Re: Changing bullets

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:23 pm

Perhaps it will help: [Solved] Problems with bullets.

Make sure the msttcorefonts package is installed if you use Windows fonts.

Thanks to add '[Solved]' at beginning of your first post title (edit button) if your issue has been fixed.
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Re: Changing bullets

Postby Paul54 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:00 pm

Hi Fox,

Thanks for your reply. Here are the answers to your questions.
Some docs are created as .swx and the others as .odt.
Every time there is a new OO we upgrade.
The older docs, OO 2.3 and before were created in Suse Linux.
We use 2.4.1 in Ubuntu Linux

We do not use the bullet tool (the icon), as those standard bullets are too big for us.
We use the scroll down menu and choose (bullets and numbering) the smaller ones.

I have attached a part of a document.
At first the small bullets were there. Now they appear like point bullets and sometimes as '∑' signs.
I have checked in the .fonts directory and the wingding fonts are there.
Thanks.
Attachments
bullets.odt
(28.55 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
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Re: Changing bullets

Postby foxcole » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:02 pm

I think I understand... you're using the Format menu, Bullets and Numbering option and choosing a bullet style on the Bullets tab, correct?

That is actually applying a font-based bullet character. It internally creates a list style ("L1") instead of using one of the built-in list styles. Here's what the XML looks like for level 1 of that style:
Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
- <text:list-style style:name="L1">
- <text:list-level-style-bullet text:level="1" text:style-name="Bullet_20_Symbols" text:bullet-char="·">
  <style:list-level-properties text:space-before="0.289cm" text:min-label-width="0.635cm" />
  <style:text-properties style:font-name="MS Reference Sans Serif2" />
  </text:list-level-style-bullet>


As you might notice, it's using a character from the MS Reference Sans Serif2 fontset... or, at least it is on my machine. Possibly yours is using a different font and mine is substituting this one for it. If a font substitution is being made, the location in the fontset that the Bullets and Numbering dialog points to does not change---whatever character (or non-character) resides at that set of coordinates is what is placed in the document.

Was this sample file showing different bullet characters than just the small point character it currently displays?

Perhaps if you were referring to other documents displaying that effect, a lower list level assigned to the paragraph might have caused that. That can happen if the author hits the Tab key, which increases the indent and assigns the next list level; perhaps an "undo" doesn't completely undo the list level change.

These bullets and styles all look consistent to me, all level 1 from the L! internal style... which goes on to use different characters for successive levels, but in the StarSymbol font instead of MS Reference Sans Serif2. You can see this for yourself by opening the .odt file with an archive tool such as 7-Zip and opening the content.xml file. Search for that first line: <text:list-style style:name="L1">

You would have much greater control over your list styles if you apply the List 1, List 2, etc. paragraph styles instead. These link to the List Styles that are set up in the Stylist (if it isn't already open, press F11).
Cheers!
---Fox

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Re: Changing bullets

Postby Paul54 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:46 pm

Thanks Fox for your reply.

I don't know much about xml, but I'm going to dive into it.
It is an opportunity to learn more about OO.

As soon as I have solved it I will post a message and mark the icon solved.

Cheers,

Paul
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Re: Changing bullets

Postby foxcole » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:30 pm

Paul54 wrote:I don't know much about xml, but I'm going to dive into it.
It is an opportunity to learn more about OO.

As soon as I have solved it I will post a message and mark the icon solved.

Hi, Paul. I apologize -- I wasn't suggesting you change the XML I was simply showing you what happens when you use that Format> Bullets and Numbering dialog --- you get a font character from a fixed location in a fontset, no matter what font is currently specified. This is not something you can fix easily by diving into the XML.

That bullet comes from the List Styles category in the Stylist. These by default use font-based bullet characters that, as you have noticed, run the risk of changing due to font substitution.

Try clicking on the List Styles tool in the Stylist (Styles and Numbering pane, F11) and right-click on List 1. Choose Modify. You will see that it brings up exactly the same dialog as you found in Format> Bullets and Numbering. Now click the Options tab. Here is where you can see the default assigned bullet character by clicking the Character button.

When I do that I see that the selected font set is Tahoma, which has a larger bullet style than the same bullet in MS Reference Sans Serif2. The MS Reference font style is overriding the default Tahoma (if that's what is also default in yours... maybe not, maybe yours are coming from Wingdings or Arial or some other font).

So how do you prevent a bullet character from changing because of font settings and substitutions? The only way is to use a graphic bullet. You can create your own and modify the List 1 style to use it.

You can use any graphics editor to make a bullet point. I do mine in Draw and GIMP, like this:

    To create the bullet in Draw: Make a small textbox, set the point size for the paragraph style, choose Insert> Special Character, and select the fontset and the character. (Use the drop-down box on the right to narrow the view of characters. There should be a "general punctuation" option.) Now if you click away from the textbox you should still see the bullet character. Click on the textbox to select it, then File> export it as a gif.

    Edit the .gif to trim unwanted white space (I find this easiest to do in GIMP which has an Autocrop tool, so I don't have to fuss with dragging handles. It automatically trims all the extra white space around the bullet.)

Now you can either assign the new graphic to the List 1 list style or apply it directly with the Format> Bullets and Numbering dialog: Both methods follow essentially the same steps because they go through the same dialog.

If you opt to update the List 1 style, you'll select the text to be bulleted, then double-click on the style in the Stylist to apply it. Select the List Styles category in the Stylist (F11, if it's not already open). Right-click on List 1; choose Modify.

- Click the Graphics tab and select any graphic bullet.

- Now click the Options tab, and you'll see that a Graphics drop-down list labeled Select has been added to the dialog (one did not exist there with a font-based bullet).

- Click on level 1 in the left pane.

- Click the Graphics "Select" drop-down and choose "From file". Browse to the newly created bullet .gif.

- To adjust the spacing from bullet to text, click the Position tab, click list level 1, and specify the spacing you want.

Each user who needs to apply that bullet graphic will need to receive a copy of the bullet file and assign it to the list.
Because styles are stored in the document, rather than centrally, this new style will need to be loaded into each document the next time it's edited. The change should be made in the default template for each user, so the style exists in all documents going forward and so OOo can offer to update each document's styles when it sees that the document's base template has changed.
Cheers!
---Fox

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