Endnotes

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Endnotes

Postby spewer » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:43 pm

As a professional writer I really like the features of OO, with one exception which makes it a deal killer. Unlike EVERY other word processor out there OO Writer will not allow you to set up endnotes so they number by chapter. That means in a book-length manuscript you end up with notes like 567. Not Cool and unexceptable to any reputable publisher.

So...does anyone know how to set up PROPER endnote numbering in OO Writer? If not does OO have any plans to fix this?

I would like to find an alternative to Word.
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Re: ENDNOTES

Postby jrkrideau » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:02 am

It can be done. Try a search "endnotes by chapter" and see what comes up. I don't know how to do it but you can do endnotes at end of each chapter or endnotes at end of the work.

I am sure that someone will be along shortly with much more information.

Personally I feel that endnotes are one step worse than footnotes.

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Re: ENDNOTES

Postby spewer » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:48 pm

Endnotes at the end of a chapter are out, at least with my agent and publishers. The problem.is not where to put them, but that the program insists on consecutively numbering them instead of allowing you to restart the numbering by chapter. As I said before, OO and its cousin Libre Office are the only WP that do this. Maybe I missed something, but I have spent a fair amount of time researching this and according to what I found it cannot be done in OO. This would seem a perfect opportunity for an app or template.

As for abolishing FN, I hear you, but it is sort of like publishers wanting manuscripts in Word.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.
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Re: ENDNOTES

Postby RoryOF » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:54 pm

I think (I'm not certain and don't need to do this) that if you are not using footnotes in course of your document, you can insert each Chapter into an OpenOffice section, select to place Footnotes at end of document, and cause the footnotes to renumber by chapter, using these Footnotes instead of Endnotes. You can change their style to be that of Endnotes; so long as you have numbered notes in the correct place in your document, who cares what they are called internally in the document? If you are using both Footnotes and Endnotes this won't work.
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Re: Endnotes

Postby RKA » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:42 pm

Hi Spewer,

Sorry to inform you, but I have had the same trouble with Writer for YEARS and no one has ever come up with a solution. Writer 4.1.1 just doesn't have the programming to renumber ANYTHING--either footnotes OR endnotes--by chapter and then place them at the end of the document. I tried Rory's suggestion about trying to convert them to footnotes, but it doesn't work (see attached screenshot) because when you select Footnotes>End of Document, the Renumber by Chapter option disappears.

<<INCORRECT INFO DELETED BY AUTHOR>>
Last edited by RKA on Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Endnotes

Postby musikai » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:25 am

Wondering.

Here it is kinda working.

When I set footnotes to "end of document", the dropdownbox only let me choose "per document", but the Endnotes are numbered per chapter. After reopening the "footnotes/Endotes"-Settings it reads "per page". The dropdownbox still let me only choose "per document", but acts as "per Chapter".

So it numbers per Chapter but the setting reads "per page".
Or am I wrong? (see Attachment, created in OO 4.1.2, is the same when created in LO4.4.7)

But I don't know any way to put any Title above the Endnotes on the last page without cheating with the 1st endnote.
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Footnotes as endnotes per chapter(reads per page).odt
(11.48 KiB) Downloaded 73 times
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Re: Endnotes

Postby RKA » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:16 am

Musikai, your example I downloaded is perfect and exactly what I'm looking for, but I just tried what you did and still have 276 endnotes listed 1 through 276. (See attached)

I also tried changing the endnotes page style to footnotes, and still have 1 through 247. I am using Sections, and you are not. I wonder if that's the difference?

I wonder if there is a difference between 4.1.2, which you are using, and 4.1.1 that I have?

I have OO 3.2 on my other Windows user account, but it's showing 4.1.1 in the start menu, so I'm having trouble trying Rory's suggestion.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

:(
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oo2.JPG
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Re: Endnotes

Postby musikai » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:40 am

I don't think sections are the problem, I tried it with my document.

I suppose the problem is that your were using endnotes when you inserted them. To convert an endnote to a footnote, it doesn't help changing the page style or the paragraph style, as I also tried that. But what actually worked, was rightclicking the endnote in the document text (!) and then (after multiple attempts to find the right spot) there is an entry "footnotes/endnotes" in the context menu. Then you get a dialog that is called "Edit Footnotes/Endnotes" where you can change the endote to a footnote. In this dialog you can use the arrow buttons to jump to the next one for faster editing.
Edit FootnoteEndnote.PNG
Edit FootnoteEndnote.PNG (12.9 KiB) Viewed 2775 times
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Re: Endnotes

Postby RKA » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:56 am

Nope, I had converted them from ends to foots for the first ten or so when I posted earlier, with no luck. BUT...you are on the right track.

I think I may have figured it out: I was NOT using Heading 1 styles for my headings; I was using 2's and 3's mostly. I think that may be what OO uses to determine what a Chapter is. I only tried it in a very truncated version of my doc so far, not the doc I'm having problems with, so I will test it out later on my "real" doc (backup) and see if it works.

Even if that issue is solved (and it's a big one, believe me), I don't know if it's possible to use sections and *NOT* have the foot/end notes--now correctly numbered--at the very end of the document. In publishing, other "back matter" such as indexes need to go AFTER the notes, and I don't think there's a way to fix that here. I can do it with endnotes using sections as Hagar once instructed, so it seems like you should be able to use sections and do it with footnotes, too.

More experimenting...but feeling much better about it! Two (or four) heads are truly better than one...
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Re: Endnotes

Postby musikai » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:59 pm

spewer wrote:As a professional writer ...
...I would like to find an alternative to Word.


Hi,
perhaps a software like Papyrus Autor could suit you.
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Re: Endnotes

Postby RKA » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:57 pm

musikai wrote:
spewer wrote:As a professional writer ...
...I would like to find an alternative to Word.


Hi,
perhaps a software like Papyrus Autor could suit you.


No go for English-language writers/authors. (See screenshot from their website)
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Re: Endnotes

Postby RKA » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:07 am

Okay, so here's the work-around steps summarized for future reference:

Basically, if you want your Endnotes at the end of a section (NOT the end of the book; the index, etc. needs to go after it) and numbered from 1 to X by chapter, you have to do it manually. (I mistakenly thought the old 3.2.0 version of Open Office did the autonumbering of Endnotes correctly, but I was wrong. I saw that I did it manually back then, too.)

So instead of choosing Insert>Endnote>Numbering>Automatic, you must choose Character and manually type in the number of the footnote. (See attached) I recommend doing this after you're all done editing, and then going back and numbering them in sequence through each chapter. I usually do anywhere from 250-500 notes, so it's arduous, but it's the only way that seems to work and publishers will not accept "run-on" numbering of endnotes (i.e. 1-576 consecutively through the document). There is no "automatic" method that will renumber the Endnotes 1-X by chapter.

<<INCORRECT INFO DELETED BY AUTHOR>>

[color=#FF0000][i]NOTE: The bug about the above methods is that footnotes disguised as endnotes can only be collected at the very end of the document. Endnotes can be collected at the end of a section so you can add other material after it, such as indexes, etc. but footnotes cannot. This is bad for authors, who need to add other material such as indexes at the end of documents AFTER the notes. Publishers will NOT accept this. So you have two terrible choices to make, and publishers will NOT accept either of them: Endnotes that won't allow you to renumber by chapter, that DO allow you to use sections and place other material after them, or Footnotes disguised as endnotes that will renumber the notes by chapter per Heading 1, but will ONLY locate at the very end of the document.

Thanks again to all for their help. This has been aggravating me since 2013. :crazy: :knock:
Attachments
oo.JPG
oo.JPG (18.02 KiB) Viewed 2633 times
Last edited by RKA on Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Endnotes

Postby jrkrideau » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:30 am

spewer wrote:As a professional writer I really like the features of OO, with one exception which makes it a deal killer. Unlike EVERY other word processor out there OO Writer will not allow you to set up endnotes so they number by chapter. That means in a book-length manuscript you end up with notes like 567. Not Cool and unexceptable to any reputable publisher.

So...does anyone know how to set up PROPER endnote numbering in OO Writer? If not does OO have any plans to fix this?

I would like to find an alternative to Word.


I have only skimmed through the entire discussion here but I think that what you want is fairly easily achieved in LaTeX or with a rather nice front end to LaTeX called [LyX]. Either implementation will do things like footnotes/endnotes by chapter easily and footnotes and endnotes in the same document fairly easily.

Whether or not something like Amazon or Kindle will accept the results I have not the slightest idea. I generally just output to pdf.

I would point out that if you are doing academic publishing, LaTeX / LyX make Word and Writer looks like kids' toys. Nice but not for adult use.

On the other hand, switching to LaTex or even LyX can be a wee bit traumatic.
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Re: Endnotes

Postby musikai » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:46 pm

RKA wrote:
musikai wrote:
spewer wrote:As a professional writer ...
...I would like to find an alternative to Word.


Hi,
perhaps a software like Papyrus Autor could suit you.


No go for English-language writers/authors. (See screenshot from their website)


There's is an english forum on the german website, but yeah, I also saw this.
I now asked them per email and post it when I got an answer.
edit: Ok, got answer. Indeed it only has a german gui and "Duden" at the moment. A true english version will come early this year 2017.

jrkrideau wrote:easily achieved in LaTeX or with a rather nice front end to LaTeX called [LyX].

Perhaps the best no-cost solution for writers. Of course a whole new (old) world.

There's also Abiword. Don't know how good it is but it supports Endnote-Numbering per Section:
https://www.abisource.com/help/en-US/in ... notes.html

RKA wrote:I think just downloading OO 3.2.0 into a separate Windows 7 user account


Curious as I am I just tried a portable install of 3.2.0 and can't see any differences in the Endnote dialog, or handling. The Endnotes are numbered without regarding Heading1.
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Re: Endnotes

Postby RKA » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:13 am

musikai wrote:
RKA wrote:I think just downloading OO 3.2.0 into a separate Windows 7 user account


Curious as I am I just tried a portable install of 3.2.0 and can't see any differences in the Endnote dialog, or handling. The Endnotes are numbered without regarding Heading1.


<<INCORRECT INFO DELETED BY AUTHOR>> You are correct, musikai. There is no difference between 3.2.0 vs. 4.1.3. The Endnotes still won't renumber properly by chapter. It must be done manually.

PS--Thanks for the "heads up" on Papyrus Author--it looks very similar to "Final Draft", the screenwriting software, and I look forward to taking a peek at Papyrus once the English version comes out.

jrkrideau wrote:Whether or not something like Amazon or Kindle will accept the results I have not the slightest idea. I generally just output to pdf.


If LyX allows you to save the final product/document as HTML, then it should work fine on Kindle. I save my OO Writer docs as HTML, zip file them (because they usually contain tables or graphics), then upload the zip file and let the Kindle Generator convert it for me. (Of course, I use the separate Kindle Previewer first before I upload to get a general idea how the conversion will go.)

But that of course is a different topic entirely. :)

Thanks again to all who chimed in!
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Re: Endnotes

Postby DavideAndrea » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:18 pm

Solution.

1. Place each chapter into its own section
- menu Insert / Section...

2. Edit each section to restart endnote numbering
- menu Format / Sections ...
- Edit sections dialog opens
- Click Options... button on the right
- Select Footnotes/Endnotes tab
- Endnotes section (bottom half of dialog)
- Check Collect at end of section
- Check Restart numbering
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