Text has vanished

Discuss the word processor

Text has vanished

Postby GoddessVictoriaB » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:07 pm

I was working on a document and had approximately 20 pages of text written. The work was saved but when I went back into the document later to continue working all the text was gone. The document wasn't deleted but there is no text in it now. Is there any way of retrieving the text?
Open office 4.11 on windows 8.1
GoddessVictoriaB
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:15 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Have you tried the backup folder? See [Tutorial] The OpenOffice user profile.
Have you tried also the Recent documents list in case you had saved in a different place?
AOO 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 19.10 and 4.1.5 on Windows 10 (with winPenPack port).
User avatar
Hagar Delest
Moderator
 
Posts: 28594
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:07 pm
Location: France

Re: Text has vanished

Postby GoddessVictoriaB » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:15 pm

yes I've tried that. The document is in the back up folder but still no text. There was also a copy saved in Wordpad and that too has no text in it
Open office 4.11 on windows 8.1
GoddessVictoriaB
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:17 pm

GoddessVictoriaB wrote:There was also a copy saved in Wordpad and that too has no text in it

As two files are affected, it strongly suggests that you accidentally deleted the contents, and then saved the empty file.

You may be able to un-delete some of the temporary files Writer wrote, then deleted, while you were editing the file. See Using RECUVA to recover Writer temporary files and Another on RECUVA and Hints on not losing data
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:24 pm

Another thought. Use Windows to search for all .odt files by Start > type *.odt in the search field > click See more results > click Date modified till it shows the most recent at the top. Does that find your document?

I have just spotted you are using what I consider to be an abomination worse than even than Windows Vista (and that takes some doing!), namely Windows 8. Does it have a start button?

Can you upload the .odt file here (use the Upload attachment tab below where you write - 128kB max; for larger files use a fileshare site like mediafire) so someone can have a look at it.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby thomasjk » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:39 pm

If you have Windows 8.1 click the Magnifying glass icon at the top right of the screen. Then put *.odt in the resulting field.
Tom K.
Windows 10 Home version 1803 17134.165
LibreOffice 5.4.7.2
thomasjk
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:52 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Text has vanished

Postby GoddessVictoriaB » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:28 pm

I've uploaded the file in question. Just to clarify that the document was never deleted just the text vanished. There was approximately 20 pages of text in the document but when I returned to it all text was gone and there was only 1 page.
I also used recuva to try and find other copies of the document but no succcess
Attachments
OPEN HEARTS AND DARK DESIRES.odt
(2.05 KiB) Downloaded 49 times
Open office 4.11 on windows 8.1
GoddessVictoriaB
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:35 pm

There is no text content within your file - the only content is as below (note the file is only 2kB so I am not surprised there is no text). Note also how the basic file structure is OK and all the metadata is OK which supports the idea that somehow the text had been deleted "properly" - it does not look like file corruption.

The file content below mentions database a lot - was it something connected to a database? Or was it reading data from a CSV file (is a spreadsheet saved as a CSV file). IF so, it may just be the link to the database has been broken and the data may still be in the database.

Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<office:document-content xmlns:office="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:office:1.0" xmlns:style="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:style:1.0" xmlns:text="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:text:1.0" xmlns:table="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:table:1.0" xmlns:draw="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:drawing:1.0" xmlns:fo="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:xsl-fo-compatible:1.0" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:meta="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:meta:1.0" xmlns:number="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:datastyle:1.0" xmlns:svg="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:svg-compatible:1.0" xmlns:chart="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:chart:1.0" xmlns:dr3d="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:dr3d:1.0" xmlns:math="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" xmlns:form="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:form:1.0" xmlns:script="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:script:1.0" xmlns:ooo="http://openoffice.org/2004/office" xmlns:ooow="http://openoffice.org/2004/writer" xmlns:oooc="http://openoffice.org/2004/calc" xmlns:dom="http://www.w3.org/2001/xml-events" xmlns:db="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:database:1.0" xmlns:xforms="http://www.w3.org/2002/xforms" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:rpt="http://openoffice.org/2005/report" xmlns:of="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:of:1.2" xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:grddl="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#" xmlns:tableooo="http://openoffice.org/2009/table" xmlns:field="urn:openoffice:names:experimental:ooo-ms-interop:xmlns:field:1.0" office:version="1.2">
   <office:scripts/>
   <office:font-face-decls/>
   <office:automatic-styles/>
   <office:body>
      <office:database>
         <db:data-source>
            <db:connection-data>
               <db:database-description>
                  <db:file-based-database xlink:href="../" db:media-type="text/csv" db:extension="txt"/>
               </db:database-description>
               <db:login db:is-password-required="false"/>
            </db:connection-data>
            <db:driver-settings db:system-driver-settings="" db:base-dn="" db:parameter-name-substitution="false"/>
            <db:application-connection-settings db:is-table-name-length-limited="false" db:append-table-alias-name="false" db:max-row-count="100">
               <db:data-source-settings>
                  <db:data-source-setting db:data-source-setting-is-list="false" db:data-source-setting-name="Extension" db:data-source-setting-type="string">
                     <db:data-source-setting-value>txt</db:data-source-setting-value>
                  </db:data-source-setting>
               </db:data-source-settings>
            </db:application-connection-settings>
         </db:data-source>
      </office:database>
   </office:body>
</office:document-content>
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby acknak » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:56 pm

The file content does not match the file name; the document file IS a database document:
mimtype.xml: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.base

How it was saved as .odt, I can only guess.
AOO4/LO5 • Linux • Fedora 23
User avatar
acknak
Moderator
 
Posts: 22756
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:25 am
Location: USA:NJ:E3

Re:Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:22 pm

This is an old post but I don't have time now to try and find a newer one to reply too on this topic.

I have switched on the, save a backup option. I also asked the program to save a file every minute to ensure that if what happened the first time occurred again, I would not lose everything. I always save everything as an .odt file while working on drafts.

I am a writer. I have lost huge amounts of text twice in the last two months. On the first occasion I lost 12000 words for an almost completed story and today I lost 5200 words in a text file that formed part of a novel. This is very serious for me! This happened suddenly, with no warning and I was left looking at a single blank page.

I was typing very quickly at the time this incident happened. I tend to do that as the creative juices start flowing. It is possible that I hit the Alt Gr, Windows, or Ctrl key by accident instead of the space bar or shift key. Even so, that should never result in a loss of work.

In a panic I checked to see if a backup had been created and was happy to find it had. However, all of this morning's work was gone. Clearly, the option to save a page every minute has not worked as part of the backup file. When I tried to load up the original document again, It loaded only the single blank page. It appears that not only has my work vanished, but it was overwritten by this blank page.

I am not a computer whiz kid. Just a guy trying to write for a living. So bombarding me with complicated crap to try and recover the stuff I lost is not going to help. It should not have got lost in the first place! If anyone knows how to stop this happening, please let me know. Something buggy is going on here, that is for sure. In my case, it can ruin my livelihood. If I could afford Microsoft Word I would use that and dump Open Office but I cannot, so I am stuck and bloody furious right now also.
Any help anyone?
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby RoryOF » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:45 pm

It is possible that some miss-keying produced a Ctrl A, which selects all the text. Then the next keypress deleted the selected text and replaces it with that one key. There is no way OpenOffice can know that these two valid keypresses were not intended.

The automatic backup of a document overwrites the last backup, so you only have one; it saves the entire file, not a page or the last page. If you need a trail of continuing backups, you need to do this manually. On my computer I backup my work in progress every day by manually making a copy file entitled similarly to MyFile 20160115.odt. Backing up a 45K word file (formatted text, no illustrations) takes about 3 - 4 seconds across the house network to the server and may lock you out of typing for that time. You should also have seen a progress bar across the bottom of the OpenOffice window.
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 18.04.3 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
User avatar
RoryOF
Moderator
 
Posts: 29778
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:18 pm

Welcome to the forum, albeit at such a trying time.

If I could afford Microsoft Word I would use that and dump Open Office

Trust me, exactly the same thing would have happened with Microsoft Word.

Rory
Can the ctrl/a shortcut be disabled? It would prevent novices losing data by the mis-type. That being said, when you press ctrl/a everything gets highlighted so they do get ample warning! And even if they do delete everything, ctrl/z, or Edit > Undo will immediately bring it all back. I think the default in Writer is for 100 steps to be un-deleted though that can obviously be increased if a user wishes.

I am not a computer whiz kid. Just a guy trying to write for a living ... In my case, it can ruin my livelihood.

If you rely on anythig to make your living, you should learn how to use it. It's like an airplane pilot complaining he has just crashed and saying he can't be bothered to waste any time learning how to fly. He just jumped in, took off and - surprise! - it crashed. It's not the plane's fault.

So bombarding me with complicated crap to try and recover the stuff I lost is not going to help

That's a shame. I spent quite a long time - probably longer than it took you to write what you have lost - doing the investigative work to enable users in your position to recover lost data, and then write it up as "crap". If you follow these steps you might be able to recover the data. I cannot do it for you! Perhaps you can pay for someone to do it for you?

If you are lucky, you might be able to un-delete some of the temporary files which Writer wrote while you were editing the .odt file, and then deleted when you closed Writer. Act quickly - they risk being overwritten the longer you leave it. Note that this only works if you were editing a .odt file - it does not work if you were editing a .doc file. The following is based on Windows - Apple should be similar.

 Edit: See [Tutorial] How to find and un-delete Writer temporary files for

a) detailed instructions on how to recover your file as it was when you last opened or saved it, or as it was when it was last saved with AutoRecovery.

b) how to find previous versions of the file in the folder it is located in, but which have since been deleted.

c) how to un-delete the temporary files Writer wrote while you were editing the file, and then deleted. This will recover your file as it was when you last opened or you last saved it and is probably your best hope. 


Using RECUVA to un-delete Writer .odt temporary files which are now deleted
Another on RECUVA

These may also be helpful.

Using 7-ZIP
Inside an odt file
Hints on how to prevent it happening

Always set AutoRecovery to ON - this saves a copy of the file every few minutes while you are working on it - it protects you against things like power cuts, OS freezes etc. Do so by: Tools > Options > Load/Save > General ...

Always?? set Create A Backup copy to ON - this keeps the previously saved version of the file fred.odt as fred.bak in the Backup folder. Do so by: Tools > Options > Load/Save > General ... The Backup folder location is shown by Tools > Options > OpenOffice > Paths ... You may need to switch on Show hidden files (Control Panel > Folder Options > View ...) to be able to see the folder and its contents.

Why the ?? ? Because you should remember that highly_personal.bak will still be in the Backup folder long after you have deleted highly_personal.odt.
Last edited by John_Ha on Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:33 pm

I was typing very quickly at the time this incident happened. I tend to do that as the creative juices start flowing.

My creative juices are similarly in full flow. Why not install a key stroke logger utility and save each day's log file? It will record every keystroke you make and, if the worst comes to the worst, you can re-input the text.

Be aware that it will record every key stroke, including typed passwords, bank details, typed emails etc. It may even record clipboard pastes.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby RoryOF » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:16 pm

John_Ha wrote:Rory
Can the ctrl/a shortcut be disabled? It would prevent novices losing data by the mis-type. That being said, when you press ctrl/a everything gets highlighted so they do get ample warning! And even if they do delete everything, ctrl/z, or Edit > Undo will immediately bring it all back. I think the default in Writer is for 100 steps to be un-deleted though that can obviously be increased if a user wishes.


I've had a quick look, John. I didn't see that it was explicitly mapped in /Tools /Customise but I didn't dig very deep - other calls on my time at present.

Perhaps someone else knows.
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 18.04.3 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
User avatar
RoryOF
Moderator
 
Posts: 29778
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Re:Text has vanished

Postby Bill » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:22 pm

freemycatfish wrote:Any help anyone?

Edit > Undo.

The backup file is the penultimate version of the file. There is no way that the backup file will contain anything added and accidentally deleted in the current session.

Autosave is for recovery from a crash. It is not for recovering accidentally deleted text. Setting the autosave interval to one minute almost guarantees that the result of an accidental deletion like this will be autosaved if it is not corrected within one minute. Since autosaved files are only intended to be used after a crash, they are deleted when the program is closed normally.
AOO 4.1.6 and LO 6.2.0.3 on Manjaro MATE
Bill
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7392
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 am

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:06 pm

John_Ha wrote: I think the default in Writer is for 100 steps to be un-deleted able to be un-deleted though that can obviously be increased if a user wishes.

Another thought. Presumably the limit is to keep the stored history of actions fairly small.

I wonder what would happen if you set it to many thousands? Even if it is stored in memory, with everyone having multi GByte memories these days, you could store many hours of work - 8 hours at 100 words/minute at 6 characters/word at 1 Byte/character is only about 280 kBytes. Quadruple it for copy/paste and its still only 1 MByte. Multiply it by 10 for complex things, and it's still trivial.

I also wonder if you could take a copy the system file? memory locations? in which the actions are stored?

Many years ago I installed a CAD system which did just that - it recorded and stored each user's actions. It then had a utility which read the log file and replayed it. It was great for demonstrations to management - you could run them (demos, not management) through beforehand to be sure they worked perfectly :-) Actually, on second thoughts, management could often have benefited from running them through.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:23 pm

RoryOF wrote:It is possible that some miss-keying produced a Ctrl A, which selects all the text. Then the next keypress deleted the selected text and replaces it with that one key. There is no way OpenOffice can know that these two valid keypresses were not intended.

The automatic backup of a document overwrites the last backup, so you only have one; it saves the entire file, not a page or the last page. If you need a trail of continuing backups, you need to do this manually. On my computer I backup my work in progress every day by manually making a copy file entitled similarly to MyFile 20160115.odt. Backing up a 45K word file (formatted text, no illustrations) takes about 3 - 4 seconds across the house network to the server and may lock you out of typing for that time. You should also have seen a progress bar across the bottom of the OpenOffice window.



Thanks RoryOF that sounds like a good idea. I will do this.
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:28 pm

John_Ha wrote:
I was typing very quickly at the time this incident happened. I tend to do that as the creative juices start flowing.

My creative juices are similarly in full flow. Why not install a key stroke logger utility and save each day's log file? It will record every keystroke you make and, if the worst comes to the worst, you can re-input the text.

Be aware that it will record every key stroke, including typed passwords, bank details, typed emails etc. It may even record clipboard pastes.



Thanks but I will pass on that one. A friend recently ran a program called ADWCleaner on my computer after I reported some suspicious activity to him. It found a key logger I had not installed that was busy trying to send information over the Net to someone else. Since then I have decided that key loggers are not things I want on my computer.
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:13 pm

John_Ha wrote:Welcome to the forum, albeit at such a trying time.

If I could afford Microsoft Word I would use that and dump Open Office

Trust me, exactly the same thing would have happened with Microsoft Word.

Rory
Can the ctrl/a shortcut be disabled? It would prevent novices losing data by the mis-type. That being said, when you press ctrl/a everything gets highlighted so they do get ample warning! And even if they do delete everything, ctrl/z, or Edit > Undo will immediately bring it all back. I think the default in Writer is for 100 steps to be un-deleted though that can obviously be increased if a user wishes.

No text was highlighted. There was no warning of any kind. No pop up asking me if I was sure I wanted to delete. Nothing that would indicate what was about to happen. Just a sudden appearance of a blank single page and all text gone.

I am not a computer whiz kid. Just a guy trying to write for a living ... In my case, it can ruin my livelihood.

If you rely on anythig to make your living, you should learn how to use it. It's like an airplane pilot complaining he has just crashed and saying he can't be bothered to waste any time learning how to fly. He just jumped in, took off and - surprise! - it crashed. It's not the plane's fault.

I am afraid your analogy does not fit. I am a writer, not someone trying to be something else. I want software that is safe and easy to use. Not something I have to study for six months, or take a course in college to master. Just something I can sit down with and use to do the task advertised. In other words, I am like 99% of other users of software out there in the real world. Would you tell the world that in order to use a computer the people in it must first learn several different programming languages and how to compile and decompile computer code and if they do not, they are akin to someone wanting to fly a plane who had never had a flight lesson?

Adding a simple pop up before carrying out any delete file activity would, it seems to me, be a definite improvement that needs to be made.

So bombarding me with complicated crap to try and recover the stuff I lost is not going to help

That's a shame. I spent quite a long time - probably longer than it took you to write what you have lost - doing the investigative work to enable users in your position to recover lost data, and then write it up as "crap". If you follow these steps you might be able to recover the data. I cannot do it for you! Perhaps you can pay for someone to do it for you?

If you got into your car this morning and it refused to start because someone used buggy software in its engine management system, how would you feel if, when you complained to the manufacturer, they told you to study the software before you complained and learn how it is configured for your car? They may be justified in making such a foolish and rude remark if you claimed to be a mechanic, but certainly not if you are just an average car driver who does not want to know how the thing works, just that it ought to do what the manufacture claims for it. I am sure that you would be even less impressed if they insisted you learn a whole new set of skills in order to fix the problem they made and which should not have been there in the first place.

Of course, you may be the kind of person who enjoys lying on the floor of a car all day messing with a little box under the dash that contains the mini computer that looks after your engine. I suspect though, that most drivers just want to go to the store or to work and back, without having to do all that crap. It's great that someone wrote a program to fix the manufacturers error. Good for them! Well done! Give them a medal! Hold a parade! :bravo: I would prefer not to have to use their damn program because the car maker got it right and I did not have too. Is that fair enough?

If you are lucky, you might be able to un-delete some of the temporary files which Writer wrote while you were editing the .odt file, and then deleted when you closed Writer. Act quickly - they risk being overwritten the longer you leave it. Note that this only works if you were editing a .odt file - it does not work if you were editing a .doc file. The following is based on Windows - Apple should be similar.

Using RECUVA to un-delete Writer .odt temporary files which are now deleted
Another on RECUVA

These may also be helpful.

Using 7-ZIP
Inside an odt file
Hints on how to prevent it happening

Always set AutoRecovery to ON - this saves a copy of the file every few minutes while you are working on it - it protects you against things like power cuts, OS freezes etc. Do so by: Tools > Options > Load/Save > General ...

Always?? set Create A Backup copy to ON - this keeps the previously saved version of the file fred.odt as fred.bak in the Backup folder. Do so by: Tools > Options > Load/Save > General ... The Backup folder location is shown by Tools > Options > OpenOffice > Paths ... You may need to switch on Show hidden files (Control Panel > Folder Options > View ...) to be able to see the folder and its contents.

Why the ?? ? Because you should remember that highly_personal.bak will still be in the Backup folder long after you have deleted highly_personal.odt.


Thanks. I had already done this before this happened.
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:17 pm

RoryOF wrote:
John_Ha wrote:Rory
Can the ctrl/a shortcut be disabled? It would prevent novices losing data by the mis-type. That being said, when you press ctrl/a everything gets highlighted so they do get ample warning! And even if they do delete everything, ctrl/z, or Edit > Undo will immediately bring it all back. I think the default in Writer is for 100 steps to be un-deleted though that can obviously be increased if a user wishes.


I've had a quick look, John. I didn't see that it was explicitly mapped in /Tools /Customise but I didn't dig very deep - other calls on my time at present.

Perhaps someone else knows.



I would be happy if I could disable ALL keyboard short cuts in a program designed for writing. In fact, I would be happy if any short cuts were limited to the F-keys in a writing software program. Much less chance of a cock up happening then.
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby RoryOF » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:20 pm

Using /Tools /Customise : Keyboard tab one can disable many (if not all) of OpenOffice's keyboard shortcuts. Do this at your own risk!
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 18.04.3 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
User avatar
RoryOF
Moderator
 
Posts: 29778
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:38 pm

May I make a suggestion or two as a user?

Keyboard short cuts on a program designed to write with are sort of asking for trouble. Could any short cuts be moved to the F-Keys which are not used in everyday typing activities? As a writer, I would much prefer to have to use a menu, or F-Key short cut, than risk making a keyboard error while busy typing and losing everything because I hit a key combination I was not aware of that deleted everything I was working on.

In the meantime, could a simple confirmation pop-up be added BEFORE anything delete related is allowed to occur? If that were to happen, the writer would have the choice to not delete something by accident.

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate the time you took to make them. I shall go on using this software but always with the fear that it may destroy all I am working on. Not because I want to live with that fear but because, like most people, I cannot afford the rip off prices other software makers charge. Please do not think me ungrateful. I really DO appreciate the work that goes into making this software freely available and I fully support the spirit behind it. I hope though, that my concerns and experiences will be taken seriously and this problem will be addressed at some point in the near future. As it is, it is a glaring weakness that may affect countless numbers of people who do not complain about it.

If I make it as a writer and finally earn enough to live on, I shall donate as a way of expressing my gratitude to all for the work done already and for the huge effort the program writers have put in. That is a promise.

Thanks again. :super:
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:41 pm

RoryOF wrote:Using /Tools /Customise : Keyboard tab one can disable many (if not all) of OpenOffice's keyboard shortcuts. Do this at your own risk!


Thank you but..., "Do this at your own risk!" does not fill me with confidence.
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:00 pm

OK - just re-assign the single Ctrl+A function within Writer to something innocuous. That is the smallest change you can make.

Open a document with some content. Ctrl+A > note how all the document is selected. Type a character > note how everything is deleted, and just the single character remains. Click the back arrow (or Edit > Undo) > note how all the text comess back. Click the mouse to un-select the text if it is highlighted.

1 Tools > Customise > Keyboard.
2 Find Ctrl+A and highlight it
3 Click Modify - Ctrl+A now appears in the box marked Keys
4 Choose some function from the Function box - I chose About OpenOffice.
5 I cannot remember - click Save? or OK? - whichever I clicked, it just closed.
6 Ctrl+A - note how the text is now not highlighted.

What actually happens depends on how you have set up your PC. If nothing else has claimed Ctrl+A, then you should get the About OpenOffice pop-up window. In my case, it brings up the window for my Password Manager which is activated by Ctrl+A. Before doing this assignment, it selected all text in Writer.

 Edit: Having stopped and restarted Writer, ctrl+A now always brings up the About Open Office pop-up.
I responded to another post where I needed to copy the entire document. Having forgotten I had re-assigned ctrl+A I pressed it and I was a little surprised to get the About OpenOfffice pop-up! :( 


NB - I therefore think that Ctrl+A is a Windows function because nothing is assigned to it when I open customise. By assigning Ctrl+A to About OpenOffice, we over-ride the Windows assignment in Writer only - Ctrl+A still works to select all in Notepad (and no doubt in MS Word too).



If this solves the problem, please click the Edit button on your original post and edit the Title to [Solved].
Attachments
Clipboard01.png
Last edited by John_Ha on Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:12 pm

freemycatfish wrote:I am a writer, not someone trying to be something else. I want software that is safe and easy to use. Not something I have to study for six months, or take a course in college to master. Just something I can sit down with and use to do the task advertised.

I really think you should stick to Notepad as Writer is not the product for you.

But, be aware that Notepad will lose all your datea if you type Ctrl+A followed by another character. Notepad, being simple and fairly fool-proof does not have the capability to re-assign Ctrl+A - only more complex software like Writer has that capability - so you will just have to live with it.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby RoryOF » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:19 pm

freemycatfish wrote:
RoryOF wrote:Using /Tools /Customise : Keyboard tab one can disable many (if not all) of OpenOffice's keyboard shortcuts. Do this at your own risk!


Thank you but..., "Do this at your own risk!" does not fill me with confidence.


It is short for "do this if you wish, but don't expect much sympathy if it goes wrong"! I've written well over a million words in OpenOffice over the past 8 years, as it comes "out of the box", with no problems. I changed away from Windows about 7 years ago, and have never regretted this. My computers are stable - the two/three crashes I get every year are usually electricity related - blips in course of a storm.
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 18.04.3 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
User avatar
RoryOF
Moderator
 
Posts: 29778
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:01 pm

Would you tell the world that in order to use a computer the people in it must first learn several different programming languages and how to compile and decompile computer code and if they do not, they are akin to someone wanting to fly a plane who had never had a flight lesson?

No I would not - you do not need to understand programing to use a computer.

But if you want to use a Windows computer you must learn Windows - that is all there is to it. If you don't learn Windows (which is where the Crtrl+A function comes from) and you refuse to learn anything about Writer (where you can over ride the Windows Ctrl+A function you do not like) you will perpetually run into problems you do not understand. I like, and repetitively use, Ctrl+A as a very useful short cut and I would be very disappopinted if it were to be removed from my system.

People who make user errors are often stubbornly reluctant to admit it was their fault. There are several posts in this forum (out of about 100,000,000 users) where the novice has lost data by typing Ctrl+A and another character. Those other users are grateful for being told what has caused their problem. The acronym PICNIC has arisen to characterise problems of this sort - Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In dinghy sailing it is "the nut on the tiller" which, or rather who, is overwhelmingly responsible for poor sailing.

Remember that we do not write the program - none of has the capability to do so. We help users to use the programme as it is supplied.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Text has vanished

Postby freemycatfish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:57 pm

John_Ha wrote:
Would you tell the world that in order to use a computer the people in it must first learn several different programming languages and how to compile and decompile computer code and if they do not, they are akin to someone wanting to fly a plane who had never had a flight lesson?

No I would not - you do not need to understand programing to use a computer.

But if you want to use a Windows computer you must learn Windows - that is all there is to it. If you don't learn Windows (which is where the Crtrl+A function comes from) and you refuse to learn anything about Writer (where you can over ride the Windows Ctrl+A function you do not like) you will perpetually run into problems you do not understand. I like, and repetitively use, Ctrl+A as a very useful short cut and I would be very disappopinted if it were to be removed from my system.

People who make user errors are often stubbornly reluctant to admit it was their fault. There are several posts in this forum (out of about 100,000,000 users) where the novice has lost data by typing Ctrl+A and another character. Those other users are grateful for being told what has caused their problem. The acronym PICNIC has arisen to characterise problems of this sort - Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In dinghy sailing it is "the nut on the tiller" which, or rather who, is overwhelmingly responsible for poor sailing.

Remember that we do not write the program - none of has the capability to do so. We help users to use the programme as it is supplied.


Yes, that is all very wonderful and had I never used any other kind of writing software I may well be taken in by them. However, I have used other writing software and I have NEVER -- not once -- had a problem like this. So perhaps the problem IS in the computer after all?

my words about this program were not aimed at those who supply or support the program, "as it is supplied." It was aimed at the those who wrote the program and I was hoping they would see my remarks and at least given some thought. I had hoped that my experience with this software would be useful for making it better. It seems not. Coming here then, was little more than a further waste of time.

I shall save up, bite the bullet and let a commercial outfit get the money. I shall also withdraw my promise to donate here. That was a mistake. I was under the mistaken impression that here I could reach the program writers directly and support them with my cash. I had also hoped for a little more than an elaborate excuse and blame shifting game.

As I said, I was hoping to reach the writers of this software with a problem and possible solutions to it. Instead, I seem to have reached at least one person who thinks a, "that'll do" attitude to the software in question is good enough. I don't and it grieves me that such an effort could be put into writing such a complex package over such a long time and that you think blaming users for something that is clearly not their fault, is somehow acceptable. It is not.

As for being a Windows user: The genius of Microsoft is in writing complex software that is presented in a way that will allow a computer illiterate person to use it well enough for it to be functional without them having to learn and remember a complex series of keyboard short cuts.

Finally, moving Ctrl-A to a function key would hardly be enough to ruin your day. Leaving it where it is could ruin the day for thousands of others.

Toodles.
OpenOffice 4.1 on Windows 7 home edition.
freemycatfish
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Re: Text has vanished

Postby RoryOF » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:22 pm

Microsoft Word also uses the Ctrl A for Select All and replaces the selection with the next typed character.
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 18.04.3 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
User avatar
RoryOF
Moderator
 
Posts: 29778
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Text has vanished

Postby John_Ha » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:23 pm

John_Ha wrote:OK - just re-assign the single Ctrl+A function within Writer to something innocuous. That is the smallest change you can make.

Open a document with some content. Ctrl+A > note how all the document is selected. Type a character > note how everything is deleted, and just the single character remains. Click the back arrow (or Edit > Undo) > note how all the text comess back. Click the mouse to un-select the text if it is highlighted.

1 Tools > Customise > Keyboard.
2 Find Ctrl+A and highlight it
3 Click Modify - Ctrl+A now appears in the box marked Keys
4 Choose some function from the Function box - I chose About OpenOffice.
5 I cannot remember - click Save? or OK? - whichever I clicked, it just closed.
6 Ctrl+A - note how the text is now not highlighted.

What actually happens depends on how you have set up your PC. If nothing else has claimed Ctrl+A, then you should get the About OpenOffice pop-up window. In my case, it brings up the window for my Password Manager which is activated by Ctrl+A. Before doing this assignment, it selected all text in Writer.

NB - I therefore think that Ctrl+A is a Windows function because nothing is assigned to it when I open customise. By assigning Ctrl+A to About OpenOffice, we over-ride the Windows assignment in Writer only - Ctrl+A still works to select all in Notepad (and no doubt in MS Word too).


It seems that you have not even bothered to have read my post above.

If you understand what I wrote, you will see that your anger needs to be directed at the Microsoft Windows product you praise so much, and not at Writer.

Windows determines that Ctrl+A selects all the data in the "in focus" window in any and every application on your PC, and Windows determines that then pressing a key replaces all the selected data with the key pressed. It is Windows doing it - it is not OpenOffice Writer doing it.

I made the minimum possible change to your computer by using Writer to over-ride the Windows function you so dislike so that it no longer happens. Following the above method converts typing Ctrl+A inside Writer to something so innocuous that it now merely opens the About OpenOffice pop-up window.

Do this, and you will NEVER AGAIN lose data by hitting Ctrl+A in error while typing in Writer. Of course it will still allow you to lose data if you type Ctrl+A and another character in every other application on your Pc including Notepad, WordPad and, of course, in MS Word.

This completey solves your problem. If you try it and find that it does, please click the Edit button on your original post and edit the Title to [Solved].

If you don't bother to try it, may I wish you good luck with MS Word. You will, of course, still have the same problem with MS Word and I wonder how much assistance you will get from Microsoft to assist you to prevent its happening again. It will be deeply ironic if, after spending your money and finding that it, of course, happens in MS Word as we are telling you, you find that find that MS Word does not allow you to over-ride Ctrl+A as Writer does. :knock:

You can lead a horse to water ... but you can't make it drink. :crazy:

This is my last post on this subject. Moderator - may I suggest we close this thread to further posts after 48 hours, to give freemycatfish a chance to mark it solved if and when he tries the suggested solution.
Last edited by John_Ha on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AOO 4.1.6, Windows 7 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
John_Ha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 pm
Location: UK

Next

Return to Writer

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests