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[Solved] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:51 am
by gospelmidi
eas21 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:39 pm
am trying to create a document in writer... grid will not display. have tried going to options/writer/grid/checked "visible grid" box. still no grid. please advise...

eas21 was advised to change Tools - Options - OpenOffice - Appearance - Custom Colors - Grid to a vivid color. I changed it to a bright red, but I still don't see a visible grid, even with the Magnifier. Tools - Options - OpenOffice Writer - Grid - Grid - Visible Grid is checked. Resolution is unchanged at 0.39 ", 0.39 ", 2, 2; "synchronize axes" is unchecked.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:08 am
by Zizi64
Grid is visible for me by setting Black grid color
grid.png

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:17 am
by RoryOF
I confirm Zizi64's result. The grid is showing for me when I set its colour to Black. At present I'm on a laptop and cannot see it when using other colours. In a few minutes I'll move to my main editing machine and try there and report back.

 Edit: I've tried the grid on my main machine (1680x1050 screen). The only satisfactory display of the grid is using Black as the colour; I've tried with some other colours but cannot see it, but the dot is so minuscule (if there at all) that I cannot see it. I think this ought be raised as a bug.
[Tutorial] Reporting bugs or suggestions

Coming back to this after breakfast, I formatted a page to have a colour background. The grid points (colour setting: Automatic) showed up on the background, but so small as to be almost invisible. For the few occasions when a grid is needed, I suspect Black will be the best choice; Snap to grid (on) may be useful when the grid is being used. 

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:29 pm
by John_Ha
I can see a red, blue and black grid in Writer with AOO 4.1.1 and W7.

One thing - when you set the grid colour be sure to set the grid for Writer by Tools > Options > OpenOffice > Appearance > Custom Colours > scroll to Text document > set grid to a vivid colour. If you forget to scroll to Text Document, you set it in Calc or Draw etc, which doesn't show in Writer :knock:

On checking with an eyeglass, each grid dot seems to be one pixel. My screen is 24" 1920 x 1080. If you reduce the resolution of the grid (mine is 5mm), or increase the number of subdivisions (mine is 10/10), you get more points, making it more visible. If you set the page zoom to 30% or so, the grid becomes very visible.

My screen has three vertical bars for each pixel - when set to red, the red bar is on and the green and blue bars are off (black), so the grid "dot" is one bar wide. If I set the grid to black, all three bars are black, making the grid "dot" three bars wide.

If this solves the problem, please edit your original post title to [Solved].

Clipboard02.png


Clipboard03.png
Page zoom set to 30%, 5mm grid, 10 subdivisions vertical and horizontal

[Not solved, but useable] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:03 am
by gospelmidi
Tools - Options - OpenOffice Writer - Grid
with Resolution Horizontal = 3.75 " (or 4.00 "); Vertical = 0.50 "
and Subdivision Horizontal = 90 (or 96); Vertical = 1
displays ever so faint horizontal dotted lines, half an inch apart, which works for me. Vertical = 1.00 " and 2 subdivisions displays even more faint lines - barely visible. Apparently, fewer subdivisions makes the grid more visible, up to "almost visible with the naked eye." ;^)

Low Priority
Tools - Options - OpenOffice - Appearance - Custom Colors - Text Document - Grid does not appear to affect anything. With Grid set to any color, the 1-pixel dots are always faint and black. Faint is good; colors would be better; even 2-bit Red-Green-Blue-Black would be an improvement, by differentiating the grid from the black text.

Thank you for all your help. You guys are great!

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:32 am
by B Marcelly
Each point of the grid is a single pixel, whatever the resolution of your screen. And it does not grow if you increase the zoom factor of Writer.

A few years ago, you could distinctly see each pixel on the screen, when getting close to it.
Nowadays, the density of pixels (Dots Per Inch) is constantly increasing. Either with laptop computers, or with high resolution monitors.

Screen            Diagonal      Pixels      DPI
-----------------------------------------------
LCD Monitor 19 inches 1280x1024 87
Recent laptop 13.3 inches 1600x1900 138
Recent laptop 13.3 inches 1920x1900 166
Monitor UHD 27 inches 3860x2160 164

The way the grid is drawn is no longer consistent with current high-definition displays.

I have added this remark to Issue 58046 Required Option: modify size of grid points

[Solved] but not really - Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:58 am
by gospelmidi
Thank you. I'll give up then.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:48 am
by John_Ha
gospelmidi wrote:I'll give up then.

Don't give up yet!

Note, the grid still works even if you cannot see it well.

As a workaround, increase the number of sub-divisions - for example, try Resolution = 10mm, Subdivision = 10 points. This gives more points making it more visible and the grid becomes a solid line at Zoom = 100% (on my screen). Unfortunately the grid points are only 1mm apart making positioning tricky.

As a further workaround, create an image (use PNG or GIF - not JPG) with grid lines you can see and use it as the background to the document you are working on with Format > Page > Background > As > Graphic. When you have finished set Format > Page > Background > As > None. Note that any image used as Background only occupies the space between the margins. You will need to be careful about positioning the lines so they are in the same places as the grid lines you cannot see.

Another option is to create an image and Wrap it in Background.

If this solves the problem, please edit your original post title to [Solved].

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:36 pm
by John_Ha
Try grid.odt - I set the grid to 10mm and page margins to 10mm all round.
I created the lines in Draw at 50% transparency, exported them as a BMP, converted to a PNG to reduce file size (exporting as a PNG gave a transparent image) and used it as the page background in the odt file.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:06 pm
by RoryOF
I have suggested on the dev ML that fixing this might be a suitable Summer of Code project.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:35 pm
by acknak
I don't meant to suggest sour grapes as the solution here, but I've never understood what purpose the on-screen grid was to serve. I know I've never needed/wanted to use it.

The only task I can think of where it might be useful is doing graphics, and if the graphic is complex enough to benefit from a grid, I prefer to work in OO Draw.

In the (very) rare situations where I've ever wanted some sort of guide on the page, I just use the drawing tools to make a vertical or horizontal line. The lines can be positioned exactly through the Position & Size dialog, and Writer seems to snap other objects to the lines, making them useful guides.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:49 pm
by John_Ha
RoryOF wrote:I have suggested on the dev ML that fixing this might be a suitable Summer of Code project.

That is sensible - I hadn't realised that you can buy a 27" 3860 x 2160 pixel screen for £400 in the UK.

acknak wrote:if the graphic is complex enough to benefit from a grid, I prefer to work in OO Draw

The grid in Draw is bigger than in Writer as the main grid points are 3 x 3 pixel " + " signs, although the subdivisions are still only 1 x pixel as in Writer. Even so, the points are quite hard to see at large magnifications on my 1920 x 1080 screen (£100 in the UK). Making the pixels black maximises their size (all three colour bars of each pixel are black) and visibility.

Another workaround is to set the resolution of the screen to a lower value while needing the grid as a "single pixel" is now "several physical pixels". Set the resolution back to normal when finished.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:11 pm
by RoryOF
@acknak: I can understand needing the grid visible and snap to grid if one were building (say) a heavily frame or illustration oriented page. We do see quite a number of posters who prepare their CVs making heavy use of frames. For page layout of this type, perhaps Draw or Impress might be better, but first time users frequenty gravitate to Write and frames.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:38 pm
by acknak
RoryOF wrote:@acknak: I can understand needing the grid visible and snap to grid if one were building (say) a heavily frame or illustration oriented page. ...

Ok, that makes sense. I guess I just never run into that sort of layout.

To me, "lots of precisely aligned frames" means a table.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:46 am
by gospelmidi
@acknak, consider this application.
I have created a quarter-page pamphlet, 4¼" x 5½",
with margins: T 0.36", B 0.44", L 0.40", R 0.40", and
center spacing 0.60".

To create two pamphlets on each 8½" x 11" page, I might
use a grid that puts a horizontal line at the center of the
page, i.e., at 5.14" below the top margin of 0.36".

But I find a half-inch horizontal grid to be more useful.
Horizontal - Resolution: 1.88" Subdivisions: 90
Vertical - Resolution: 0.50" Subdivisions: 1

I write the last line of the top half below the 4½" grid line
and the first line of the bottom half above the 5½" grid line.

The half-inch grid lines also serve to position tables and
to adjust spacing to fit an orphan line into its paragraph.

I'm sure you have a good prefabricated form to do that,
but with my limited knowledge, that's how I've done it.

Re: [Not solved for me] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:37 pm
by acknak
gospelmidi wrote:@acknak, consider this application.
I have created a quarter-page pamphlet, 4¼" x 5½",
...

I do respect everyone's right to manage their own work, for sure. No problem with that.

By my experience, the kind of project you describe is most easily handled in OO Writer by always working at the logical page level. Writer supports a simple single logical page for each physical page and trying to force it to manage multiple pages per sheet adds a lot of extra work. Once that's done, the single-logical-page document can be rearranged to produce multiple document pages per physical paper page. Separating the jobs of page layout vs. imposition (how the pages are arranged for printing & binding) makes the whole process much smoother.

[Solved] Writer: grid won't display

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:32 pm
by gospelmidi
Thank you for all your help. I can work with that.