Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

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Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Ali-Farzin » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:44 pm

Hi,

May you knowing, when the OOo will open and save files with docx suffix (MS-Word 2007 and 2010), same word 97-2003?
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Villeroy » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:14 am

There is no technical reason to write these file formats as long as Microsoft supports the old doc format.
You can send your documents as PDF for reading which will give the best results.
If you really need to co-edit documents with users of Microsoft then you should always edit odt documents and send the final copy as doc which is the second best supported file format.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:40 am

Better avoid the OOXML format, have a look at: MS Office 2007 OOXML file format (docx, xslx, pptx, ppsx).

Standards like ODF (native format for OOo) have been designed for interoperability. OOXML has not bee designed for that. MS will continue the vendor lock-in policy to keep their market shares...

So if you need to save in .docx, stick to MS Office.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Cmiller » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:23 am

If you click "Save As", then type .docx next to your titled docunment, it should have the file format you are looking for, AS LONG AS you have microsoft office installed on your computer. It worked for me! :)
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby tomdkat » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:16 am

Cmiller wrote:If you click "Save As", then type .docx next to your titled docunment, it should have the file format you are looking for, AS LONG AS you have microsoft office installed on your computer. It worked for me! :)

I just conducted a test using LibreOffice 3.4.4 on Ubuntu Linux by saving a document I created in Word 2007 DOCX format and I was able to open, edit, and save it using MS Word 2007 on Windows XP. I made a couple of edits on the file using both Word on Windows and LibreOffice on Linux and I didn't encounter any problems at all.

So, maybe having MS Office installed isn't required. I don't know how reliable the DOCX support is in LibreOffice so maybe there would be issues with more complex documents.

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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:02 am

The problem in such situation is that you don't really know when the problem happens. If it's not compatible, then the situation is clear. But when you've been led to believe that it is compatible but there are some flaws, then you've to carefully check at each export if it's ok or not. And that's the critical point. If you take too much time to check that not a single character has been lost, then, the balance is not for the use of docx with OOo (or anything else than MS Word).
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby esperantisto » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:32 am

I encounter problems with line spacing and page numbering when saving to DOCX using LibO 3.4.4, thus, I’d recommend keeping MS Office to check and, as necessary, correct files. Otherwise, it’s safer to export to DOC, which shows less problems (but still problematic about page numbering).
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Cmiller » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:33 pm

Very agreeable, i always keep MS office as a back up. But i am still impressed with Open Office either way. Usually,i think, its how you format you docement when opening a file that was made in openoffice in the Microsoft office program. In my opinion, using ".doc" is perhaps more compatable, and may give you better results than using ".docx", because OpenOffice supports .doc better, and no one right now has actually made a version of OOo that supports .docx yet. If you use OOo office and Microsoft Office alternatively then my way is most likely better, and you should save in ".doc" These are only my veiwpoints however. But perhaps you could give better...

Dunno really
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Buddyboy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:00 am

This discussion seems to miss the point in one respect. If I receive a .docx file, I want a programme to open and use it. If Open Office will not do that (and it won't for me), the only way I can work with the file is to use Microsoft Word. That seems to defeat the object of using OO exclusively, as I have done to date. I don't want to create documents in .docx, I want to receive and work with them if that is what someone else sends me. I always open received files, save them in .odf then, often, create a PDF from that. With .docx I can do none of that. Short of converting the whole of the rest of the world to Open Office, I have to be prepared to handle these files. So, other than OO keeping up with the times and handling new formats, what's the answer? If OO fails to promptly keep up with such new formats, that's a huge incentive for people like Microsoft to keep churning out new ones. Why else would they have done this?
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Villeroy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:03 am

You miss the point that this is exactly why those file formats have been introduced.
You have many choices to open or convert such files without MS software. Why do you ignore them? Why do you expect this program to solve all the problems instantly and for free that have been introduced by mere intention?
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Buddyboy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:15 am

To answer your question, because I hold OO in high regard. All MS document formats are the de facto standard for business documents. If they weren't, we would not be having this discussion. If Open Office does not intend to be and does not profile itself as a viable business alternative to MS Office, then what you say is valid.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:29 am

Buddyboy wrote:All MS document formats are the de facto standard for business documents.

This is the heart of the problem. Everybody think like that and this is precisely the problem.

I could agree that .doc has been a de facto standard (and now you understand why MS has never really taken action to prevent piracy of their products: let the world get accustomed to them so that they can't live without them, there will always be a part of them obliged to buy the product).
But .docx is not a de facto standard at all, it's just a new file format that is not even supported by MS in its ISO version.
Imperial system is also a de facto / historic standard in many parts of the world and I recall the crash of a satellite because somewhere in the software it had not been converted in the international system (metric) used by the other parts of the soft. Same here: if users want interoperability, then use formats designed for that.

But we have to revert 20 years of habits...
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Villeroy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am

Standards are well documented so everybody gets a chance to implement it. Something is not a standard just because everybody produces a certain file format with one particular software.
ODF is a well documented ISO standard since 2005. It has been implemented without legal traps nor fees nor too heavy technical barriers. It is very easy for MS to implement this standard because their software covers everything necessary. Instead, everybody expects that this project invests a multiple amount of time and effort to support something which is not fully covered by this software.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Villeroy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:08 pm

Buddyboy wrote:To answer your question, because I hold OO in high regard. All MS document formats are the de facto standard for business documents. If they weren't, we would not be having this discussion. If Open Office does not intend to be and does not profile itself as a viable business alternative to MS Office, then what you say is valid.

If only a 100% clone of MS Office would be a viable alternative then there is no alternative. A perfect re-implementation of all their latest quirky file formats requires to write something close to a clone of their software. Of course MS wouldn't help by any means. Instead they would not hesitate to sue you.
If you need a maximum of MS compatibility then there is no alternative and possibly such a thing will never exist. This is how proprietary file formats had been designed. OOo and a few other programs offer to convert these formats to something they can use and they offer a fairly good export according to the features that are implemented in the respective software. That's all you can expect on the technical level.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Buddyboy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:00 pm

There are all fair, valid comments. However, I use OO because it does the job very well. If I receive the odd file from some obscure or less well used source system, I don't expect OO to be able to handle that independently. But MS Office files remain so standard that, in my view, they should be the exception to that rule. Docx files are indeed new. They are being produced now more and more. The more files I receive that OO cannot seamlessly handle, the more I am forced to look elsewhere for solutions, something I do not want to do. Frankly I do not disagree with the comments here to date, but I wonder how competitive OO will be as a true alternative when a business and others are unable to read a large proportion of business files being circulated.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:31 pm

As long as users don't become aware of that, indeed, the battle will be rather hard...
But any energy put on proprietary format is energy less to improve the product in other areas. And it would be anyway a lost case since there will be always a glitch somewhere (I trust MS to have put some traps in those formats).
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Buddyboy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:49 pm

Oh what a wicked world we live in. Good discussion. Thank you.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby PGAGA » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:42 pm

Thursday, February 02, 2012

Buddyboy wrote:All MS document formats are the de facto standard for business documents. If they weren't, we would not be having this discussion.


Unless you are dealing with IBM. They adopted ODF as their standard a couple of years ago.

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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Michael S. Lopez » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:42 am

I believe I have the same problem as the person who opened this file. My brother has Word 2007 and Open Office. When he sent me a file in Word 2007, I could not open it because my trial version of Word had expired (I let it expire because I hate Microsoft Word -- I had formerly used only WordPerfect, whose Reveal Codes feature has almost always enabled me to solve problems in highly complex WordPerfect tables). Also WordPerfect is good about backwards compatibility, while Word, as noted above in this thread, deliberately sabotages backwards compatibility. My brother converted his Word 2007 file into an ODF file and sent it to me. I wrote a response to his file, which I wanted to transmit to my daughter. She tells me she wants it in Word format, so that she can edit it on her computer instead of making handwritten notes. My daughter does not have Open Office. In the meantime, I had bought Word 2010 (which is backwards compatible to Word 2007). My problem now is to get my ODF document back into MS Office format. If that's impossible, is there another way to transmit the document to my daughter, which she can edit? Hypertext markup language, maybe? My text uses six character colors, all in one font (Calibri), in sizes ranging from 1 point to 12 points, but otherwise is simple -- there are no complex word tables in it, for example.

I'll check this thread to see if a workable solution is found. The "crazy" smiley icon illustrates the relationship between me (on the left) and MicroSoft (the brick wall -- but I couldn't figure out how to post it on this page.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:04 am

Save in .doc.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Buddyboy » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:51 pm

This is a good example of how people trying to communicate can end up running in circles because of incompatible file issues. It has been well stated earlier that no programme can do it all, however the more compatible a programme is with what is out there, the more likely it will be to win the battle of the survival of the fittest. I would prefer to see OO win that particular battle, hence I am hoping OO keeps being compatible with whatever Microsoft puts out.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:06 pm

Buddyboy wrote:This is a good example of how people trying to communicate can end up running in circles because of incompatible file issues.

That's why standards are for.
Anything else is called vendor lock-in policy.

The problem is not with the application but with the file format.
Preventing the interoperability of the file format is the only way for MS to avoid most of the users going to OOo.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Buddyboy » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:32 pm

Hagar: I agree 100%. However, if Microsoft is allowed to get away with it, they may have won. It's like the anti-virus companies. They have to keep adapting to the latest virus or go out of business.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby esperantisto » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:24 am

Yeah, it’s pretty much like antivirus vendors: they keep on releasing new viruses to force people to buy subscriptions for antivir bases. Microsoft keeps on changing file formats to make people buy new versions of their office apps.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby KDibble » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:26 pm

"That's why standards are for.
Anything else is called vendor lock-in policy.

The problem is not with the application but with the file format.
Preventing the interoperability of the file format is the only way for MS to avoid most of the users going to OOo."

The problem with this thinking is that it's self-defeating.

You don't have to duplicate MS's code to get MS's effect. Start from scratch. Measure the absolute position and size of every item in the DOCX document and ensure that OO reproduces those measurements exactly. That will solve 99% of the problems right there. You can't force MS Office users to embed vs link objects, and you can't force everybody to have the same installed fonts. But just the other day I opened a DOCX document that had an image and letterhead in it, in OO 3.2. The positions and sizing of the letterhead text and images were all wrong. The images and text were all there--embedded, not linked, but wrongly positioned. I see the same issue with Word tables in OO Writer--the tables show up but the sizes of the cells are wrong. This is not a proprietary technical problem. It's just sloppy programming and could be easily fixed. Part of the problem I think is attitude: Some OO people seem not to actually want to be able to do good conversions. That's sad, and avoidable.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby floris v » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:11 pm

@KDibble: All of your points are mute.
- First, get the idea that OOo is a free clone of Microsoft out of your head. If it had been intended as such, it wouldn't have had page styles, it wouldn't have had word completion and it wouldn't have had a lot more features that are or were absent in MSO.
- Second, the developers of OOo have better things to do than hunt down every new quirk in MS software. There are still features documented in the ODF definition that have not been implemented in OOo. There are also still many bugs and feature requests, fixing of which would be better for usability of OOo than a better compatibility with MSO.
- Finally, compatibility wouldn't have to go any further than preserving actual content, together with basic formatting information. Compatibility down to the square millimetre would only be required in publishing software, so that for instance a completely formatted manuscript (down to editor-checked hyphenation) will be printed exactly as seen by the editor. Positioning of graphics in Word and Writer easily becomes a nightmare, even if you save files with graphics in their native format; you might say those programs aren't compatible with themselves. I can remember a ridiculous problem with printing on Apple computers - the print preview would be based on the screen's resolution, and when the document would be printed, the printing was based on the printer's resolution, so that words that wrapped to the next line on-screen would sit on the end of the line when printed. That was sloppy programming.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Hagar Delest » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:32 pm

KDibble, are you aware that MS Office doesn't use the specification they have issued for OOXML? Thety have released a 6,000 pages specification that nobody uses! Instead they have implemented another flavor with a good deal of proprietary quirks to prevent interoperability. And are you also aware that they don't implement correctly ODF (600 pages specification IIRC) to avoid... interoperability again?

If it was so easy to fix, why someone couldn't have done it? Use LibreOffice instead. They intend to improve the OOXML support, targeting the complete compatibility.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby floris v » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:47 pm

Anyone remember how MS always deviated from the HTML specification by the W3C Consortium? There will only come a true industry standard that all software houses stick to when they are forced to do so by law.
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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby ben_myers » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:37 pm

Here is the root issue. If a user of OpenOffice RECEIVES a .DOCX (or other uSoft 2007/2010 file), can it be opened and handled the same way as the older .DOC and friends? Apparently not.

If I worked all by myself and all alone, I would have no trouble using OpenOffice 24/7. But I am in the world of the internet with collaboration and sharing of documents. Aren't we all? It would get old really fast for the people who use Office 2007/2010, if I told them I could not handle a .DOCX and please resend me .DOC. (I did that for a while when I still used antique Office 97 on one of my business computers, and it annoyed more than a few people.)

At the possible expense of getting flamed, I will state unequivocally that if the OpenOffice project continues to deny the importance of reading and saving Office 2007/2010 formatted documents, well, ya got your head in the sand and you are effectively limiting severely a viable alternative to the very expensive Microsoft Office. And it would be a darn shame! :crazy:

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Re: Open & Save files .docx (Word 2007 & 2010)

Postby Villeroy » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm

Why is it so difficult to grasp that it is impossible to write a clone of MS Office with a tiny, tiny fraction of MS resources? The download of Apache OpenOffice weighs about 150 MB which is the same amount of software as when you download the free viewers for 7 proprietary MS Office formats. In the end you will always buy your copy of MS Office simply because you want nothing but MS Office.
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