Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

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Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby marttikk » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:46 pm

I have two problems with bullets and numbering in OOo3.

(1) OOo3 puts a bulleted or numbered list always to the LEFT MARGIN OF THE PAGE. If my text paragraphs are indented (we use 4,6 cm left indents from the margin in the body text), the bulleted lists appear always in the wrong place. This used to work fine in version 2 but not anymore in version 3.

(2) Outline numbering has problems with indents, too. Try making a numbered outline list, e.g.

1. text...
2. text...
2.1. text...
2.2. text...
3. text...

If the "text" item in the second level list (2.1 or 2.2) spans over to several lines, the lines are not indented properly. The indent in the first line is always different than in following lines. In version 2, this could adjusted fairly easily (Format - Bullets and Numbering, use the adjustments in the Position tab page). The new Position tab page in OOo3 has been changed and I have not found any rational way to correct the indentation using the adjustments of the new page. By trial and error I sometimes succeed.

Has anyone found a workaround to these problems (other than using list styles)?
In am using OOo 3.0.0 on WinXP SP2.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby edison23 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:03 pm

i have quite same problem, in OO2.4 bullets used to look like this by default:
Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
-  kjnasdfdkljasdf
    -  ljkasdkljfhaksljdhf


but in OO3.0 i cant force this appereance by default and it bullets are like this:
Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
   -    sdflkjsdfkh
   -          asdfsadkjfhsadk


i am able to set it up but it doesnt work defaultly..please help what should i do?
thx for replies..
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby marttikk » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:43 pm

I think I found the situation when OOo3 puts bullet lists in the left margin (and is not using the correct left indent of the paragraph).

If the paragraph STYLE DEFINITION has 0,0 cm left indent, then OOo3 puts the bullet list in the left margin regardless of what is the actual indent of the paragraph. OOo2 used to check what was the ACTUAL LEFT INDENT of the paragraph and used that as the base indent position for the bullet list. Because indents can be given using several methods (not just the style definition), OOo3 often misses the correct indent position. For example, if you indent paragraphs using the indent icon on the formating toolbar, OOo3 does not recognize that as an indent when bullet lists are positioned.

Maybe this could be called a bug in OOo3? At least it is a new (and not so nice) feature.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby aul » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:29 pm

I seem to be having a similar problem with 3.0.1.

If I start a bulleted list
1. type something at the highest level
2. hit return and type another entry 1 level in
3. hit return to go to the next line (currently at 1 level in) then choose "outdent" it doesn't just demote the item, it outdents the current level into the margin of the page.

I'd guess that when working with a bulleted list outdent should just act as a demote. It took me a while to realize what was happening.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:28 am

... choose "outdent" it doesn't just demote the item, it outdents the current level into the margin of the page.

Sorry, I don't see this when I follow your steps. What exactly do you mean by "outdent"? What button or key are you pressing?
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Fergus Pearson » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Within 'numbering', when you're two or three levels in, but then want the next line to return to a higher level (say from level 3 back to level 2) the indenting remains at level 3 while the numbering goes to the appropriate level 2 numbering. There seems no way round this except moving the indentation via the ruler for each new line. This makes the whole exercise pointless.
I find this so frustrating! I use outlines and numbering most of the time with Open Office, and OOo3 has been a disaster for me. Has anyone found a way round these problems? Is there a way officially to put in a request to have this problem solved?
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:07 pm

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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:01 am

Within 'numbering', when you're two or three levels in, ... the indenting remains at level 3 while the numbering goes to the appropriate level 2 numbering. ... Has anyone found a way round these problems?

It's not likely that anything will happen unless you can give an exact recipe for reproducing the problem.

It's possible that you've mixed list items from two different lists.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby _ds » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:06 am

hello,

I would like to say that I've got the same problem(s) a described in this topic.
I think it is actually a bug because when I try to made a very simple example with bullets

Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
I would like to have this (like it was possible in 2.4)
* Exple1
* Exple2
      - exemple21
      - exemple22
* Exple3

Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
I got this :
* Exple1
* Exple2
-        exemple21
-        exemple22
*Exple3

and.. when I want to change the bullet list options, even if I change the indent length the text doesn't move
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:34 am

Is it in a document made with a previous version of OOo? Works fine for me with 3.0.1 under XP. The list management has changed in 3.0 so it may be that the old setting confuses OOo. Try with a new document to check.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby jlblaw » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:07 am

The recipe is simple.

(1) Create a new document.
(2) Type some text; select it; click the numbering icon; set numbering preferences to outline numbering, e.g. I. A. 1. etc.
(3) The first level includes little spacing between the numeral and the text.
(4) Type enter; next to the numeral II type some text. Again there is little spacing between the numeral and the text.
(5 )Type enter; next to the numeral type something. Whoa there is all of a sudden way more space between the numeral and the text.
(6) Worse yet, view the paragraph settings for each line. Whoa! They are the same.
Attachments
Bug.GIF
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:59 am

This has been discussed a number of times; e.g., see this thread: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12271
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Fergus Pearson » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:17 pm

Thanks Hagar - I was using keyboard shortcuts and macros I had set up with OOO2. I've now deleted all of those and set them up again in OOO3 and it all seems to work well. Thanks for the tip!
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby andylyke » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:48 pm

This may be closely enough related to the issue that I'm posting it here, rather than opening a new string. Notice that in the bulleted list, the indent in the second line of a paragraph doesn't behave as (at least I) expected.

Oo 3.0.1, Windows XP

Ooerror.png
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:16 pm

Can you upload the file here?
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby andylyke » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:27 pm

Here is is (attached)

:oops: Hagar- I just found my problem over on 2162. When I get a chance, I'll learn more about formatting the bullet styles. You had solved it on Sep 25, 2008 4:07 pm
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indent error.odt
(10.55 KiB) Downloaded 169 times
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Hagar Delest » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:05 am

What do you mean?

It seems that it comes from the bullet formatting: it moves the whole paragraph. So there is indeed a 2" gap between the start of the text (not the bullet itself) and the start of second line.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby ryandimmick » Tue May 12, 2009 8:22 am

I have the same issue, unfortunately I could not find the solution refered to. I have a lot of documents that are numbered and recently installed 3.0. When I open a document the numbering is there just as before, but if I try to add lines they do not indent. I changed the spacing in the bullets and numbering menu, but it has no effect. I'm just going to go back to 2.4, it worked fine.

Also, for some reason, when I saved the document Open Office 3 deleted all the information in the table at the top of my document. I hadn't edited or touched it, so I don't know why that happened. All I had done to the document was try to add another numbered line and save.

I've re-installed 2.4 and everything is working as expected. I guess I'll wait for the next update. Generally, I avoid updating software that is working, but OO2.4 does not know how to save a document as an HTML and make it look right (adds spacing and such that I can't seem to control). That may be my fault though.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue May 12, 2009 2:43 pm

ryandimmick wrote:Also, for some reason, when I saved the document Open Office 3 deleted all the information in the table at the top of my document. I hadn't edited or touched it, so I don't know why that happened. All I had done to the document was try to add another numbered line and save.

Do you save in .doc format? If so, this is a known problem with 3.0.1 and partly in 3.1. See [Issue] Table problem with .doc after 3.0.1 upgrade and [Issue] Tables made with 2.x wrecked at .doc export.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby jrgee72 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:08 pm

You cannot use the indent tools on the ruler to control the indents either. You should be able to move the left upper triangle to move the placement of the bullet and the lower triangle(holding the ctrl key) to change the ident of the text to the bullet but keeping the bullet in the same place. None of this works.

Even if I try to force and indent through the position tab under outline number tools either under tool or format it does not respond.....solution

I no longer teach to my student how to control the location of indent sin an outline list because you cannot control it---just accept the default.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:22 pm

You can control it, but not through the ruler.

List items in Writer have two competing points of control: the label (bullet or number) and the paragraph. For example, the paragraph's left margin indent can be changed by the configuration of the bullet, or the configuration of the paragraph. Only one can win; which is it? The answer is somewhere between: "it depends" and "no one knows."

The only dependable solution is to use one or the other, but not both, and the only way to control the bullet/number alignment is through the list configuration, so you have to avoid using the paragraph layout--including the rulers--and use only the list configuration to indent list items.

This situation looks like a first-class blunder to me, but it is manageable once you learn to control the layout though the list and not through the paragraph.

To change the list label position & alignment, you use the "Bullets & Numbering" dialog (there is no GUI or mouse control for this). Access to all the layout properties is found on the "Position" and "Options" tabs. The list label layout configured there will affect both the label and the paragraph text.

If you have specific problems with a particular document, please attach a sample and describe exactly what you're need to do.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby neanderslob » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:10 pm

Does anyone know if this has been fixed in 3.3? I'd think that this sort of glitch would be rather major.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:21 am

Nothing has changed for 3.3.

My guess is that it won't change any time soon. This is a deep problem; any fix will be disruptive and expensive and will therefore have a lower priority and higher inertia compared to lots of other, easier problems.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Mozby » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:44 pm

jlblaw wrote:The recipe is simple.

(1) Create a new document.
(2) Type some text; select it; click the numbering icon; set numbering preferences to outline numbering, e.g. I. A. 1. etc.
(3) The first level includes little spacing between the numeral and the text.
(4) Type enter; next to the numeral II type some text. Again there is little spacing between the numeral and the text.
(5 )Type enter; next to the numeral type something. Whoa there is all of a sudden way more space between the numeral and the text.
(6) Worse yet, view the paragraph settings for each line. Whoa! They are the same.


This is a big problem for me, it's a real shame that this still hasn't been fixed. I uninstalled 3.3.0 and then downloaded (http://download.openoffice.org/2.4.3/other.html) and installed 2.4.1 instead --but that doesn't play nice with Lion. Looks like I'm stuck with 3.3.0.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:10 pm

This is a big problem for me, it's a real shame that this still hasn't been fixed.

This is not a fundamental problem with the software, it's just a poor choice for the default tab settings. You can easily change the settings to fix the problem.

Read the other thread I linked to above for some instructions on dealing with the settings that cause the problem.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12271

For a long-term workaround, learn to use list styles--you can define your own settings and have them available as the default.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby johnnyk427 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:31 pm

I just wanted to create an account to say I wasted an hour on this incredibly annoying problem. The fact that there are people in here defending this indentation magically changing after item 10 as a reasonable feature are disgusting, and have no idea how to make a positive user experience. Thanks for wasting so much of my time while I'm trying to write this report. At least I have the problem fixed now, though. I was about ready to plunk down $100 to buy MS Word I was so frustrated by this.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby Hagar Delest » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:55 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum!

johnnyk427 wrote:The fact that there are people in here defending this indentation magically changing after item 10 as a reasonable feature are disgusting, and have no idea how to make a positive user experience.

Perhaps I've read again this topic too quickly but I don't see anyone saying it's a reasonable feature. acknak who is an expert in such questions also admits that it's a poor choice, that's all.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby acknak » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:45 am

I believe I saw that there is a plan to change the default tab width in an upcoming version, maybe for 3.4.

Of course, that can't cover all possibilities, but hopefully it will cover the most common ones.
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Re: Bullets and numbering - indent problem in OOo3

Postby johnnyk427 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:53 am

Ok I take it back then. Thanks!
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