The images in my document have disappeared

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ribbony
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by ribbony »

It has happened to me yesterday.

A write doc that had about 12 pages with about 4 or 5 images per page. It has been an ongoing project for the last 18 months and then last night I noticed that the images disappeared just leaving the outline where they were in the first half of the document, the images remain in the last half ???

I had been saving in doc format.

I noticed that the size of the doc dramatically increased from about 4mb to just under 20mb now without half the images.

I have tried to up the memory settings in tools/options
I have checked that the graphics box is ticked in tools/options/write/view
I have tried to now save this in odt format but the damage seems to be done.

The images are placed in the doc by draging a size reduced versions to the doc and dropping it in place.

This have been working well for 18 months, so why the sudden breakdown just as I was completing this edition. Frustrating would be an understatement !

Any insights appreciated :)
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John_Ha
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

It is very difficult to diagnose without access to the document. As it is no doubt larger than the 128kB limit here, can you upload it to a file sharing site (eg Mediafire) or, if it is private, send it to me (I have sent you a PM with my ID) and I will have a look at it.
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

ribbony wrote:I noticed that the size of the doc dramatically increased from about 4mb to just under 20mb now without half the images.
That sounds good news as 20MB means the images are probably still there. We just need to find out why you cannot see them.
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ribbony
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by ribbony »

I will try to post the file on a file hosting service.

The size of the file was a surprise, considering the images do not add up to anything like that total size. If the images are in there, is there a way to look at them or are then encoded / hidden from view ?
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John_Ha
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

RIbbony

You can look at them and get them back.

I suspect that the images are graphics, not photos. Graphics files are quite small because there are lots of "areas the identical colour" so the files compress well - while a 1000 x 1000 pixel image has 1 million pixels, it may only be 50 kBytes as a file. MS doc format is just a dump of the memory in use while the document is being edited and in memory, each pixel will take up 1 byte (8 bit) or 3 bytes (24 bit), so a 1000 x 1000 pixel graphic will occupy 1MByte or 3Mbytes respectively.
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Analysis of a file with disappeared images

Post by John_Ha »

Ribbony sent me his 2.2MB doc with image issues - size reduced.doc file (too big to post here) and I have analysed it. Ribbony has given permission to post the results here. Some background first ...

This file has always been saved as a .doc. He "re-uses" files so cannot be certain that this file was created by AOO - it might have been created by MS Word (I think so - see later - where did the dog come from?).

.doc files are actually ZIP files, where the file WordDocument is, I believe, a dump of the memory while the file is being edited. This is what I see when I unzip the .doc.
 Edit: The file WordDocument seems to comprise a few tens of lines of binary at the beginning, followed by the text, where Fred is coded as F null r null e null d null etc, followed by about 1/3 of the file as binary 
doc file unzipped
doc file unzipped
When I opened the .doc file with AOO I got this:
doc opened in AOO 4.1.0 Beta
doc opened in AOO 4.1.0 Beta
Navigator says there are 8 images, but the first 5 are "missing". Images 6, 7 and 8 display OK. When I highlight one of the blank images and r-click > Save graphics it saves this image as a 16 colour (ie only 4 bits) file.
copied image from doc by Save graphics
copied image from doc by Save graphics
copied image from doc.png (924 Bytes) Viewed 22700 times
When I r-click > Picture > Type tab and Choose Original size, it sets the size to 0.41mm x 0.41mm.
I will have to continue in a new post below as I have hit the limit of three attachments.
Last edited by John_Ha on Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John_Ha
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Analysis of a file with disappeared images

Post by John_Ha »

When I open the Picture tab, I get this preview of a dog.
dog from Picture tab
dog from Picture tab
So my first question to myself is where do these 0.41 x 0.41mm images with the red cross, and this dog preview come from? I can't think they were put there by AOO because AOO stores all its images in its Pictures folder. Is it possible that these are from an original MS Word created .doc file and they are built in for use when required? I don't know. The images which showed had proper previews of the image.

I then exported the .doc as a PDF and the images were missing. So, my conclusion is that the images really are missing from the .doc file.

I then saved the .doc file as an AOO odt file to see what happened. The missing images did not appear and AOO Navigator now showed only 3 images. The 5 "image outlines" had disappeared and clicking on them did not highlight an image.
.doc saved as an odt file
.doc saved as an odt file
I then looked at the XML in the content.xml file in the odt.
XML from odt file for "missing image (yellow) and "correct" image (blue)
XML from odt file for "missing image (yellow) and "correct" image (blue)
Looking at the blue first we see in the first 2 lines, AOO draws a frame of the required size and at the required location with the <draw:frame ...> command (the frame seems to be a Scalable Vector Graphics, SVG object). AOO then draws the image Pictures\100 ... A1F.png in the frame. The command is <draw:image ... /> where the /> ends the draw:image command. The next line <draw:frame/> ends the <draw: frame ...> command.

Looking at the yellow lines where the image does not display we see AOO draws the frame OK in the first two lines the same as in the blue lines. But the draw image command is just <draw:image/> which is a correct <draw:image ...> command to draw nothing. So nothing gets drawn into the frame.
Continued below ...
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Analysis of a file with disappeared images

Post by John_Ha »

I then looked in the odt file and indeed there were only 3 images in the Pictures folder.
Pictures folder from odt file
Pictures folder from odt file
My conclusions were:

1 The 5 images are lost and I don't know why. As it is 5 images, it is unlikely to be a user error.

2 The AOO XML file is "consistent", correctly constructed and it works. It is just that it is telling AOO to put empty images in the page. It is as though the images were intentionally removed. This does not look like an error caused by a corrupt file, or by switching off the PC before AOO has written the file.

3 Why are the missing pictures in the .doc replaced by the "white box with red diagonals" at 0.41mm x 0.41mm, with a dog as the preview? And why is this white box saved as 4 bit colour? The white box is, I think, the same size as the missing image it replaces, one is 216 x 162 pixels. It is as though these "replacement boxes" have been coded to be as small as practical when saved in the file. These are the reasons I think these "replacement boxes" can only have come from MS Word (or similar other application) as I do not see AOO developers doing that. I compared the sizes of the doc file and the odt file and they were effectively the same size which strongly suggests that the missing images were not "buried somewhere in the .doc binary memory dump but not seen by AOO" because, if they had been, the odt file should have been much smaller than the doc file, as the images are definitely not in the .odt file.

4 It has often been suggested that users are better to save files in .odt format than in .doc format. This analysis suggests that is very good advice as the odt file structure is clear and transparent and very robust; and you can retrieve text and images as items extracted from the odt container file. But a .doc file is a binary dump and there is nothing you can do with it apart from open it - you cannot extract text and/or images separately from it. I would definitely recommend users always to use .odt files. I have saved about 25,000 .odt files over the past 6 years, over half of them with images, and I have never had a failure. I always save in .odt, never in .doc.

I then decided to have a look at WordDocument stored in the .doc file. What happens if I open it with AOO? It shouldn't open - after all, it is a memory dump - presumably the other files also stored in the container .doc file are needed for AOO or MS Word to make sense of it.
 Edit: I cannot remember - I think I first renamed it to WordDocument.doc, and then double clicked it 
But it did open, and I got the ASCII Filter Options question box as below:
ASCII Filter window wnen opening WordDocument with AOO
ASCII Filter window wnen opening WordDocument with AOO
ASCII filter.png (8.56 KiB) Viewed 22694 times
Continued below ...
Last edited by John_Ha on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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John_Ha
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Analysis of a file with disappeared images

Post by John_Ha »

When WordDocument opened in AOO, it was full of #########. The document was 9,000+ pages long and it was completely unstructured. Navigator showed no images.

I wondered if this file could be linked to the problems where people are seeing the ASCII Filter box, and AOO opens a document full of ###### ? Could some error have happened such that AOO is (wrongly) opening this WordDocument file stored as one component of the zipp-ed .doc file?

It would be useful to see if anyone using .odt files ever loses images from their document.
WordDocument opened in AOO
WordDocument opened in AOO
I was using AOO 4.1.0 Beta for my tests but I doubt that had any effect on what I was seeing.
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Analysis of a file with disappeared images

Post by John_Ha »

Could another reason for losing images be related the user specified size of the Graphics cache?

Tools > Options > Memory allows the size of the Graphics cache to be specified - the default on 4.0.1 and 4.1.0 Beta is only 20 MB. If objects are not in the cache, they will take longer to be pulled back into the file when the document is scrolled - could lost images be linked to saving while graphics are being pulled into the cache? Or deleted from the cache to make room for new entries? With modern PCs having 4GB or more of memory, it might be sensible to increase this to, say, 200 MB or more if you are using a lot of images in a document.

Or could AOO be releasing memory back to the Operating System before it has brought the images stored in memory back into the file? when editing an odt file, AOO presumably keeps the temporary odt file up to date as each edit is made, and stores each image in \Pictures in the temporary file when the image is added. So the odt file is not reliant on the memory contents - all the changes have been saved to the temporary file.

But how does AOO handle images when the user is editing a .doc file? The whole concept is different - the images and text are not stored in the .doc file: they are stored in the memory and are presumably only written to the .doc file when the .doc file is saved. If so, this may well be a useful thing to explore and again would explain why, anecdotally, .doc files seem to lose images. IT also becomes a timing issue - which could explain its unpredictable nature,a nd why it seems to be worse with files with many images.

Modern cameras take 14 mega-pixel images which are typically 5MB JPG files. If a user adds a photo by Insert > Picture > from file, the image is stored in AOO as a JPG file. But if the user copies the image to the clipboard, and Edit > Pastes it into the document, AOO stores it as a PNG file, which is typically 15 MB, or 3x the size of the JPG file.

Help says:
Graphics cache
The graphics cache saves the graphics contained in a document in your computer's main memory. This means that the attributes of a graphic stored in the cache do not have to be re-calculated if you return to the page containing the graphic after scrolling through a document.
Use for OpenOffice Beta (MB)
Specifies the total cache size for all graphics.
Memory per object (MB)
Specifies that objects which are larger than the selected megabytes will not be placed in the cache.
Remove from memory after (hh:mm)
Specifies the time that each graphic remains in the cache in hours and minutes.
Cache for inserted objects
Number of objects
Choose the maximum number of OLE objects that are pooled in the cache.
Attachments
Tools &gt; Options &gt; memory
Tools > Options > memory
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ribbony
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by ribbony »

It happened again to the document, note that I have been using odt for the last week or so as the format.

After it happened again this morning, I opened a new odt document, then selected all the contents of the old file and copies across to the new odt document. Apart from a couple of minor formatting differences it has transferred Ok. The size of the files is comperable to the old one ~21mb.

By copying the across the contents should that help reduce the left overs from the old word doc that it may have originated from ?
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John_Ha
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

ribbony wrote:By copying the across the contents should that help reduce the left overs from the old word doc that it may have originated from ?
If being a doc file is causing the problem, then yes, using odt should certainly be better. If it does go wrong again, then it is much easier to analyse, and possibly fix, if it is an odt file.
I would very much like to see the entire 21MB doc file, or the entire 21 MB odt before you copied it into the new file, so that I could do some further tests on it to try to reproduce the error. Can you possibly post it to a filesharing site like mediafire.com, or split it into 3 x 7MB files (use hjsplit) and email it to me.
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ribbony
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by ribbony »

It has been an odt since the first responses to posting the problem. It is just that it had been saved in doc format for about 18 months prior to the disappearing images. I suspect that the file may have been stable for a long time as there were only so many images, it was mostly text. However recently I have reduced text and greatly increased the image content. That is when the issues arose as I probably pushed the limits to incite the problem.

I will check out the file sharing sites and send you a link.

Thank you for the assistance.
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ribbony
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by ribbony »

File has been hosted & a link send to you via email.

Thanks
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dbschiff
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by dbschiff »

I just started having this problem as well. Have a 50 page document - and yesterday the embedded images were all gone. I went into options and increased the memory allocation as some recommended, and painstakingly replaced all the images. Today I opened up the file again to do some editing. All the images were there. I updated the index at the end of document, and when I scrolled up to do some more editing - many of the images were gone. Luckily I hadn't yet saved so I was able to reopen the document - and the images were still there. This is a pretty serious bug.
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Hagar Delest
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by Hagar Delest »

In such case, can you save under another name to check?
Do you get a placeholder with a broken link?
Were you pics inserted from files on your HD or did you copy them from the web for example?
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dbschiff
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by dbschiff »

None of the images were links. These were images I created, one way or another, and inserted carefully into the document. Interestingly, this is a document that has gone through many revisions since January of 2013 and the problem appeared for the first time yesterday. I thought maybe I hit a memory problem - but the document is only 5mb. Very odd. I couldn't think of any thing that changed in the document. I did very recently update to version 4.1 and so I'd guess on there being some change in the software - but I can't tell what. So far today I've been editing the document and no problems since first thing this morning.
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Bill
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by Bill »

This is a bug which was first reported and confirmed in OOo 2.0.1. It's probably not related to any recent update.

Issue 59915 - image loss in writer documents, dataloss
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John_Ha
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

I can now create the "disappearing images" fault every time I test it.

The problem is almost certainly caused by the Tools > Options > OpenOffice > Memory > Graphics cache settings and by AOO's failure to handle things gracefully when these settings' values are exceeded. To reproduce it, just drag lots of photos into an odt file without saving it, and sooner or later Writer will crash/hang and lose some or all of the photos. Note this is exactly what ribbony reported - he was pulling lots of images into his document.

Steps to reproduce are:

1 Create an odt file. Insert a table with 60 or 70 rows - it makes it easy to drag in and position the photos. By default, the table rows are set to autoheight so they adjust to the picture size. Do not save the odt file - leave it as Untitled.odt

2 Open a folder of photos. I used 14 megapixel JPG photos, where each JPG was about 5MB. They must be different photos - AOO recognises if an image is repeated and only stores one copy of it. The JPG files were stored as 5MB JPG files in the odt file.

3 Drag photo 1 to row 1 in the document. The row height adjusts to the picture height.

4 Repeat, dragging photo 2 to row 2, photo 3 to row 3 etc.

5 After I got to 26 photos inserted, when I dragged photo 27 into the table it did not go. Instead, the Insert Section window popped up and the photo could not be placed in the odt file. After several repeated tries - in other words, after a delay - the photo went in OK.

6 as I dragged more photos into the odt, the Insert sections window came up more and more frequently.

7 I was watching the memory usage with TaskManager - the memory was climbing to 2.5 to 3GB used (Out of 4GB).

8 When I got to about 70 photos, AOO hanged, "greyed out", and I got the hourglass. I left it and after a few minutes AOO closed OK, but the file needed recovering.

9 untitled.odt was only about 150MB - much too small as 70 x 5 MB = 350 MB. When I opened it, Navigator showed that images 1 - 26 (apart from 6!) were missing - note the Insert Section I got at Photo 27 in step 5 above. The odt file was very flaky and kept crashing.

10 On my first test, I was not interrupted, and I only got to about 30 photos before Writer hanged. The recovered file had the table, but no photos.

11 On my second test, I was interrupted by a phone call, and got to about 70 photos before Writer hanged. Note that there is a "Remove from memory after" setting which I have set to 10 minutes - it might have come into play.

12 I then repeated the test, saving after 15 photos, and intending to save after 30 photos. But when I got to 29 photos, I got the Insert sections pop-up window and the photo would not go in. I waited, and it went in, but Writer then hanged and the file recovered, but then crashed immediately.

13 I then repeated the test, but saving after every 10 photos. I now never got the Insert Section pop-up window and I carried on and place 73 photos in the odt file. When I saved it was now taking a long time - 45 seconds for the "blue squares" to run across the bottom of the screen. However, Writer was unresponsive for a further 45 or 50 seconds after the blue squares had stopped. AFter that it was fine and accepted more photos. The final odt file was 355MB and saved OK, but Writer crashed when I opened it. I hadn't run out of memory - I was only using 3 GB of my 4 GB. I recovered it and Navigator showed it had 73 images in it (as expected 73 x 5 MB = 365 MB) but each was showing the "empty box with Read error" and no images were showing. This was strange as all the images were in the odt file and when I unzipped the odt, each image was properly saved. The problem is therefore not with the images themselves, but with calling them. I have posted content.xml below.
 Edit: I then extracted all the saved images from the ODT file and resampled them to half their size. As the default Quality Factor was only 85% on re-sampling, this reduced each JPG to about 600 kB, or about 52 MB in total. I re-inserted the smaller files back into the ODT file - it was then only 49 MB. The ODT now opened and saved OK, suggesting it was the large size of the individual photos causing the difficulty in opening/saving the original 355 MB ODT file. 
So, it seems the basic problem is something to do with dragging in lots of images and/or not saving the file regularly and/or something to do with the Graphics Cache settings. I don't know whether the settings can be adjusted to prevent it as presumably, if you "double" the settings values, the same thing will happen after twice as many photos. At least the developers should be able to reproduce this.

Note That while I suspected that these settings might be behind this problem (see my earlier post) I was prompted to do these tests by reading the bug report Bill posted which says:
I think I found a workaround for this problem, maybe even a way to reproduce the error on other machines where that has been unsuccessful so far.

For me the problem occurred when my document reached around 80 pages with about 70 embedded images, 50 of which I had added since I saved the last time. The bug vanished after I changed the memory settings in OOo under Extras -> Options -> Memory (freely translated from German). There I increased the image cache size from 20 to 200 MB, the number of objects from 20 to 200, the "remove after" time to 1 hour and possibly the memory per object to 5,2 MB. So far the error has not since appeared again. It was even possible to add more pages and images compared to when the bug first materialized.

For those who were unable to reproduce the bug, have you tried decreasing the image cache size, etc?

I'm running OOo 3.1.1 (OOO310m19, build 9420) on Windows XP Home 32-bit with 3GB RAM.
Attachments
Memory usage
Memory usage
Insert section pop-up window
Insert section pop-up window
content.xml
content.xml from the file where 73 photos are stored, but aren't called into the document
(54.29 KiB) Downloaded 339 times
Last edited by John_Ha on Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by RoryOF »

@John_Ha: would you please raise a bug on this problem, with a link to this very helpful post. When you have the bug number I'll bring it to the Dev mailing list; I doubt there will be a fix in the next minor release. With modern memory sizes, the memory allocations in OpenOffice have long needed increasing, which may involve major surgery to the code and garbage collection, which is only appropriate for a major release. But let's get that under way!

We also need something equivalent to Impress Mimimize for Writer documents, which fits the resolutions to a target output device..
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

Rory

I have already added this to the original bug report mentioned by Bill.
I can now reproduce this problem every time.

See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41271&p=314079#p314079 which says that

- dragging many 5MB JPG files into an odt brings up the Insert Sections pop-up and the odt file crashes.
- saving after every 10 images prevents the Insert Sections pop-up appearing, and the odt file accepts 73 (I stopped at 73) images, and saves OK, but crashes on opening.
- all 73 photos are intact in the 350 MB ODT file.

I uploaded contents.xml to the forum post, and give details of experience saving (blue squares take 45 seconds during save, but Writer unresponsive for a further 45 seconds after).

Writer 4.1.0, Windows 7 Home Premium, 64 bit, 4GB memory.
Do I need to raise another bug report?
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by RoryOF »

No, that's OK. I'll bring it up on the dev list. Sometimes (read: all the time!) Bugzilla is not a good way to fix faults, but if there is a report and a diagnosis (as you have done) we have a better chance of getting it fixed.
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

RoryOF wrote:We also need something equivalent to Impress Mimimize for Writer documents, which fits the resolutions to a target output device..
That would be useful, with one proviso, namely that it is optional. I try to reduce the number of times an image is re-sampled to a different pixel count so as to maintain quality. As I have few images (50?) in my documents (3MB), and most are greyscale PNG, I leave the images at their original (high) resolution, and use the Export to PDF dialogue to fit the dpi to the printer dpi.

A second problem I mentioned to one developer is that modern digital cameras are 14 megapixels which typically produce 5 MB JPG files. But if a 5 MB JPG is transferred to Writer using the clipboard, AOO does not know it is a JPG, and so saves it as a PNG, which is typically 3x as big, or 15 MB. Users may be surprised to find their odt files are so big!
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by John_Ha »

RoryOF wrote: ... but if there is a report and a diagnosis (as you have done) we have a better chance of getting it fixed.
I find diagnosis is good fun - it's man against machine.

And I can understand the developers' viewpoint - intermittent or un-reproduceable faults are a nightmare. Once you can get a reproduceable situation, they can investigate much more easily, and if someone does the basic diagnosis, it helps them a lot.
LO 6.4.4.2, Windows 10 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
Bill
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by Bill »

I think this is a new bug in AOO 4.1.0. The bug report is about images that disappear, not about Writer crashing when inserting images. I've gone through John_Ha's procedure with 56 images, each less than 4MB. In AOO 4.1.0, Writer crashes after dragging as few as 6 images to the table in Writer. No crash occurred when dragging all 56 images to a table in Writer in AOO 4.0.1 or OOo 3.3.0.
AOO 4.1.14 on Ubuntu MATE 22.04
Bill
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by Bill »

Has anyone looked at the AOO memory usage when adding images to a document? When I add images in AOO 4.1.0, the memory usage increases dramatically with every image inserted. In my case, it was about 160 MB for every 4MB image. It doesn't take long to run out of memory at that rate. In contrast, in AOO 4.0.1, the memory usage increased about 42 MB when the first image was inserted and didn't increase any more when more images were added. I'm wondering if this is limited to Windows 8.1 or if it also happens on other Windows versions, Mac and Linux.
AOO 4.1.14 on Ubuntu MATE 22.04
Bill
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by Bill »

Found two more bug reports which seem to be about this issue. A fix is targeted for AOO 4.2:

Issue 124999 - Huge memory consumption for very large and complex .odt

Issue 125000 - CRASH when scroll through very large and complex .odt
AOO 4.1.14 on Ubuntu MATE 22.04
ribbony
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by ribbony »

John - Thanks for the all the hard work you have done on this.

Much appreciated !
OpenOffice 4.0.1 on Win 8.1
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RoryOF
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by RoryOF »

On the OpenOffice developer list today, Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:51:53 +0200, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <orwittmann@googlemail.com> posted as follows:
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: <previous quote snipped>

I recently worked on "image loss" issues (124717, 114361 and 124966) and
"high memory consumption by images" issues (124999 and 125000).

I assume that the observations described in the above mentioned forum
post are related to issue 124999 and 125000.

Reading through the comments of issue 59915 I think that different
"image loss" defects had been reported in this issue and that the
initial reported "image loss" was never stable reproducible.

I think with the work on the above mentioned issues, the builds from
actual trunk versions should be tested, if the recent found defects
still exist. If yes, please submit a new issue and put me on CC.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Oliver.
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.15 on Xubuntu 22.04.5 LTS
Bill
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Re: The images in my document have disappeared.

Post by Bill »

I did download and test the build with the fixes to see if it would crash when dragging images to a document. Using the same images which crashed AOO 4.1.0, there was no crash of the AOO 4.2 build. The memory usage, while higher than I had observed in AOO 4.0.1 was much less than I had observed in AOO 4.1.0. I don't have any documents to test for image loss, so I can't comment on that issue.
AOO 4.1.14 on Ubuntu MATE 22.04
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