Forum header update

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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:05 am

lgusaas wrote:Approved? Where? Shouldn't all headers be similar to the one on http://www.openoffice.org/ ?

Not at all, it was never approved, it was put by Oracle in 2010.

The only approved design on the Apache era, was the new Extension page (and maybe the openoffice.apache.org). During the Sun era, the 'twirl' was the approved one which still lives on on the Wiki. Since we don't have a WebDev team anymore there really is no archive of the work done to link to it.


lgusaas wrote:As I mentioned somewhere before, the use of two variant hues of blue is poor design.


Says who? we have always had blue on blue, the current forum design is blue on blue. the previous design on the main/wiki/etc was blue on blue. I don't think is poor design at all.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:17 am

jza wrote:On the other side, the logo is ready to just apply, and there are several patches already.

And it has repeatedly been pointed out, putting the new logo into the header of this forum doesn't work. The header has to be designed as a whole. No quick patchwork is acceptable.

Why do you keep bringing this up?
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:25 am

lgusaas wrote:
jza wrote:On the other side, the logo is ready to just apply, and there are several patches already.

And it has repeatedly been pointed out, putting the new logo into the header of this forum doesn't work. The header has to be designed as a whole. No quick patchwork is acceptable.


Why not? precetti's post was about accepting the logo on the footer, should the whole footer needs to designed as a whole as well? doubt it.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:31 am

jza wrote:
lgusaas wrote:
jza wrote:On the other side, the logo is ready to just apply, and there are several patches already.

And it has repeatedly been pointed out, putting the new logo into the header of this forum doesn't work. The header has to be designed as a whole. No quick patchwork is acceptable.


Why not? precetti's post was about accepting the logo on the footer, should the whole footer needs to designed as a whole as well? doubt it.

God, you are dense. The footer is completely different. The footer has a plain white background. the proposed logo fits into the present design and is basically just an update of the current logo.

The new AOO logo does not work against the current blue background in the header.

I'm tired of repeating myself, so ..........
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:51 am

lgusaas wrote:
The new AOO logo does not work against the current blue background in the header.

I'm tired of repeating myself, so ..........


How exactly it doesn't work, the current logo is blue on blue, and has been working for as long as this forum has been up and running. The proposed changes has nothing to do with the color or contrast. It only changes the form, performing a change of fonts and change of symbol to the "flat orb".
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 am

jza wrote:How exactly it doesn't work, the current logo is blue on blue, and has been working for as long as this forum has been up and running. The proposed changes has nothing to do with the color or contrast. It only changes the form, performing a change of fonts and change of symbol to the "flat orb".

Read the bloody thread. The changes you arbitrarily made to this forum without consensus did not work. You have not proposed anything different from you previous illegitimate changes.

If you can't make a positive contribution, you can s..............

i'm done with your juvenile bickering. I've got better things to do with my time.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:41 pm

Then if there is no consensus on a 1st quick step to implement a good looking logo in line with the branding and then change the whole header, we have to wait for a decision for the whole revamp of the header. Things may have changed now that the discussion about admins is going to nowhere.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby RGB » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:17 pm

pescetti wrote:To start agreeing on something concrete, could we at least agree about the following?

1) Hagar's proposal to update the "download" logo (page footer) seems a no-brainer.

Image

Any objections to that?

Non at all! A +1 from me for this download logo.

pescetti wrote:2) Can the two logos at http://forum.openoffice.org/ and http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ be consolidated into one? I mean: they are now very different and I see no reason for that. I'm not saying they must be 100% identical (one is a logo, one is a full header), but they should become similar enough to discuss them as if they were the same graphic concept: once we agree on the header, we will extract the logo from it.

+1.

I was trying to figure out if it's possible to make a non disruptive change on the forum header to include the new AOO logo without changing too much the existing layout. Note that I'm not a graphic guy so I cannot go beyond this simple mock-up

Forum-Header.png


I agree that the mock-up looks a bit ugly as it is now, but IMO a soft gradient to make a transition from the white logo's background to the forum's header background could work. What do you think?
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:41 pm

I think if there is a point to be constructive, there should be new construction of things than having a hardline and being as inflexible as people are being on this thread.

Here is the list on things I agree and propose, let's have consensus on at least one or all of them:
  • Change the fonts from Sans to Sans Pro
  • Change the 3 Gulls for the plain Orb

I am taking the original proposal by Andrea and kill the excuse of the "blue on blue" and having it white. This is how the logo would look as white on the header:
forum1.png
Switch the light blue to white.


RGB-ES proposal on changing only the blue box on the top, won't need a whole re-design of the header only a few switches of the current CSS. So I am submitting a patch and showing the mockup of what will be to have the original branding (no switches) and only switch the blue gradient box and the text from white to black.
forum2.png
White background on
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:55 pm

pescetti wrote:To start agreeing on something concrete, could we at least agree about the following?

1) Hagar's proposal to update the "download" logo (page footer) seems a no-brainer.

Image

Any objections to that?

2) Can the two logos at http://forum.openoffice.org/ and http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ be consolidated into one? I mean: they are now very different and I see no reason for that. I'm not saying they must be 100% identical (one is a logo, one is a full header), but they should become similar enough to discuss them as if they were the same graphic concept: once we agree on the header, we will extract the logo from it.


1) I agree

2) At the current stage both logos can't be the same, unless you are talking on the original branding petition, which WAS proposed on the first place, back here.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:39 pm

The proposal with white instead of light blue seems a rather good compromise for the moment:
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:10 pm

I update the bug with the all-white logo:
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug. ... 122998#c13
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:31 pm

Hagar Delest wrote:The proposal with white instead of light blue seems a rather good compromise for the moment:
Image

It would be better to revise the whole header and use the official logo instead of changing the logo.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:48 pm

lgusaas wrote:It would be better to revise the whole header and use the official logo instead of changing the logo.


The logo is not changed, actually is in-tune with the visual guidelines of 'allowed' modifications for logo inverse. Originally thought for print design, this is also covered.
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Brandin ... go_Inverse
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:04 pm

jza wrote:
lgusaas wrote:It would be better to revise the whole header and use the official logo instead of changing the logo.


The logo is not changed, actually is in-tune with the visual guidelines of 'allowed' modifications for logo inverse. Originally thought for print design, this is also covered.
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Brandin ... go_Inverse

That page is not official
This is a draft for the OpenOffice.org Branding Guidelines. Elements for discussion can be posted here. The content of this site is not yet official.

it would be better to redo the whole header, rather than a stopgap measure.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby Hagar Delest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:02 pm

At least it's a first step. The white header is not an option either. And revamping the whole header will take some time I guess.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:58 pm

Hagar Delest wrote:At least it's a first step. The white header is not an option either. And revamping the whole header will take some time I guess.

Best to do the whole thing at once. Why is the white header not an option? The headers designs i proposed for this and the home page would be relatively simple for someone who knows the HTMO and CSS of this page to implement.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby RGB » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:03 am

lgusaas wrote:
Hagar Delest wrote:At least it's a first step. The white header is not an option either. And revamping the whole header will take some time I guess.

Best to do the whole thing at once.

+1
lgusaas wrote:Why is the white header not an option?

Indeed. Some tweaks will be necessary to make the search box more visible, but I think that the white background on the header is a good option. Note that something that was repeated several times on the mailing list discussion was the idea to introduce the official logo without modifications to have a stronger "branding" across all sites. Maybe a light blue instead of white?
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Re: Forum header update

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:08 am

I like the blue color at the top, I find it nicer than a white one.
But that's only my opinion. If there is a consensus on a white banner, I've no problem with that.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:55 am

Hagar Delest wrote:I like the blue color at the top, I find it nicer than a white one.


+1
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:27 am

Hagar Delest wrote:I like the blue color at the top, I find it nicer than a white one.
But that's only my opinion. If there is a consensus on a white banner, I've no problem with that.

I like blue as well, but, the official logo has a blue orb that is almost the same shade as the background on the header, and slightly lighter blue lettering. That doesn't work against the blue background. Since the official logo should not be modified, the blue background will have to go.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby RGB » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:56 pm

Hagar Delest wrote:I like the blue color at the top, I find it nicer than a white one.

Then, we can make a compromise :mrgreen:

Does something like this looks OK? I took the idea from the extensions site

Forum-Header-2.png


(yep, font colour must be tuned a bit...)
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:47 pm

If we are going to have modifications to the CSS might as well put the original patch I did. the whole point is do the implementation without involving major webwork (touching other files).
PD: You can hack on the patch I posted and come up with that style, so we can actually have something implementable.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby Hagar Delest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:02 pm

RGB's proposal is better indeed. Perhaps a slightly darker hue of blue to have some "dynamism" between both blue areas. I tried a bit but couldn't really find a correct color (especially due to the light gray for Apache).

 Edit: But as shown below, the one from the template could do it. 
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:20 pm

Extension site has a good background blue.
Image
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Re: Forum header update

Postby lgusaas » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:29 pm

jza wrote:Extension site has a good background blue.

The background blue in RGB's proposal works better. The logo and text jump out more. The lower saturation of the colour recedes into the background, drawing attention to the content. The more saturated colour in the extension site draws the eye's attention to the background, not to the content.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby RoryOF » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:53 pm

An old trick is to squint at an artwork from viewing distance. If it vanishes it won't work.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby RGB » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:06 pm

The problem with the colour used on the extensions site is that do not match the colours used here, so there are two options: change all the site colours to match the header or just change the header. IMO, the last option is easier ;)

I do not have the slightest idea about how to implement something like this, my relation with HTML is not friendly at all so I cannot go beyond the mock-up, sorry. :oops:

BTW, I like the "FORUM" icon far better than the "Community forum" text. Time for a new "linear combination":

Forum-Header-3.png
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Re: Forum header update

Postby jza » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:13 pm

RGB wrote:The problem with the colour used on the extensions site is that do not match the colours used here, so there are two options: change all the site colours to match the header or just change the header. IMO, the last option is easier ;)


Or use the white logo.
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Re: Forum header update

Postby RGB » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:24 pm

jza wrote:
RGB wrote:The problem with the colour used on the extensions site is that do not match the colours used here, so there are two options: change all the site colours to match the header or just change the header. IMO, the last option is easier ;)


Or use the white logo.

I do not consider the white logo as an option. The wiki page you quoted before about possible changes on the logo is a pre Apache page (last edit on that page is several month before the project was accepted by Apache). Although it is possible to discuss what can be done (and what cannot be done) with the official logo, for the time being I think the only option is to use it without modifications.
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