Discussion and Feedback on Survival Guide for the forum

[TerryE]

The purpose of this thread is to provide an area to discuss and provide feedback on the Survival Guide for the forum.

The reason for this separate topic is that the survival guide is locked and only agreed updates are applied to the guide by forum moderators.

[TerryE]

Hagar, Could you temporarily unlock the "This is not a customer service" and add an "if you want to give feedback" link pointing to this topic?

At the moment the use of the bug tracking system is raise almost as an aside on the "This is not a customer service" section. I think that the "This is not a customer service" point should limit itself to pointing out that we do this pro-bono, etc.

The issue about where to look for help is an entirely separate point about alternative sources of information, such as the QA database, the Wiki, key references, OOoForum, ... Maybe we should change the scope of "Try a Search First" to include secondary search sources.

We quite to get "can some give me answer to world hunger" type of Qs — you know the sort of thing "I need a macro to do A B C and D on weekend", which would involve any respondent spending a lot of time research, etc. We should council posters to be honest in their Qs. They should try to keep their Qs as specific as possible so that anyone answering can quickly get to he point.

We also need to review the FAQ for relevance / consistency to this and we could also do with an explicit link to the BBcode Guide, (which we need to update with information on any custom tags which we decide to add).

How do you want to play this? Should we just propose the text changes here or what?

[Hagar Delest]

I just noticed that their was a little mistake in the post since the search link was not in the right message ! I also added a link to this thread in the last post.

For other search sources, I'm not so convinced because it's already something not user friendly to ask them to search plenty of sites before eventually asking their question (even if I know it should be the right method). My opinion is to let them and to teach them : look, here is the issue tracker (for example) where I've found your issue. I suppose they'll get somehow curious about it next time.

But anyway, that thread is not mine, it's a common tool so if you want to make changes, just do it, all moderators can change it if it has to be improved.

NB: I'm on vacation so don't know how often I'll be online here so don't wait for me to make modifications !

[TerryE]

I realise that the thread is shared, and am happy to make changes but I didn't want to do so without first discussing with you. I'll edit this post later to minute any changes that I make

[Hagar Delest]

I've also added some external links as requested in the Search post.

[foxcole]

I wonder if the information on using and commenting on tutorials could also be included in the survival guide. Keep it where it is, too, so more eyes might find it... but adding it to the survival guide might help make users aware of tutorial threads, as well as remind them [as in, me] to not reply to [Tutorial] threads while they're in the main forum for review and comment.

[Hagar Delest]

In fact, I' like to keep the rules in the survival guide as few as possible. As the tutorials won't be that frequent, even if there are replies, I think we can keep them until the tutorial is moved and then split the thread to move the comments to a 'comment' thread in the main section. I'm quite sure we'll get many replies in the tutorial threads and an additional rule may be worthless.

[LJ Bettona]

Thanks, Hagar,

It's really useful as a newbie to have such a guide. Especially the guide to the icons. Maybe it's just me, but they are not always intuitive. As I've used other forums, most of the info is a given, but for those, for whom this is their first forum, it's really useful.

Now I'll go and create a signature that contains the info on my machine and version of OO to use in my next post.

[Hagar Delest]

Maybe it's just me, but they are not always intuitive.

+1.
I've even been almost lost here, the icons are not so clear sometimes (stickies for example).

[floris v]

Maybe you should add something about not writing in all caps and what to do when your problem has been solved.

Great thread.

[Villeroy]

Maybe you should add something about not writing in all caps and what to do when your problem has been solved.

Great thread.

+1
SIMPLY IGNORE 'EM ALL.

[Hagar Delest]

Maybe you should add something about not writing in all caps

I've added few words here : Explicit titles for threads. If you've a better proposal, don't hesitate.

Maybe you should add something about (...) what to do when your problem has been solved.

Already done : Tell us when your issue is SOLVED.

[foxcole]

I find myself frequently asking people to describe the problem, rather than just stating there is a problem. Perhaps it might help to include a few tips, some ideas about the kinds of details to think about. This is just meant to help stimulate thinking about what other people might need to know about the problem, not a list of required details.

• Did something work differently before than it's working now? What can you think of that has changed (program version, OS version, different computer, new peripherals, new programs installed, firewall updated... anything).
  
  What steps have you taken to try to figure out the problem? What, if anything,did you learn from doing so?
  
  Does the problem involve another program such as Word, or another piece of equipment such as a printer? Include that software version or model number (if possible).
  
  OOo is based on styles. If the problem has to do with features not behaving correctly, think about what styles you have applied and how you applied them. Can you compare the items to similar ones in other documents? If so, can you find any differences between them? Did you use the toolbar or the Stylist (Styles and Formatting window) to apply formatting?
  
  Does the problem happen with a number of different files or only one (or a few) specifically? Does it happen only with new files? Only with pre-existing files? Only with files of a particular format?
  
  For each option you use or look at, spell out exactly how to get to that option. (For example, File> Save As, or Tools> Options> OpenOffice.org Writer> Appearances>
  
  An example is worth a thousand words. If the problem is complicated to describe, take a screenshot or create a copy that you can post so others can see what you're seeing.

Not all of these tips would apply to every question, of course, and that should be made clear. It's just meant to boost the asker's thought processes to be able to provide relevant details up front, to save time by asking the question in the best way possible.

[Hagar Delest]

I've added a post. Just modified some wording, feel free to comment !

[acknak]

Very nice! Good tips; well done Messrs. Foxcole & de l'Est!

[foxcole]

Thanks, acknak.
Looks great, Hagar!

[foxcole]

I'd like to add one more thing to the Survival Guide, not in the Tips but up in the requirements somewhere.

If the user is reporting what they think might be a bug, they should first ensure they have the latest version of OpenOffice. If they're running an old version of OOo, the bug could have already been fixed so they would be asking forum members to spend time diagnosing a problem that might already be fixed. If updating is not possible, they should first search the issue tracker and the forum to see if the problem is a known bug. If they can't locate it, they should note that they're aware they have an old version and that they can't update, then ask if it's a known problem and follow the suggestions in Tips to describe the problem.

[Hagar Delest]

I'va made a tutorial about reporting bugs : [Tutorial] Reporting bugs.

Feel free to modify it, complete it, ...
I'll add a link to that one in the survival guide.

[acknak]

I just realized that the "Survival Guide" has no statement on multiple posts (at least that I could find in a quick scan).

I suggest that it be wrapped into the "One issue" item; perhaps like this:

One post—one issue more
Post once, with one clear question, and you'll get a faster answer.

In the "more..." section, we could include something like this:

Please don't post the same question to multiple places. If you're not sure where to post, just post it once somewhere--we can always move it to a better place if necessary.

Also (oops, breaking the "one issue" rule ), is there a link directly from the "Survival Guide" to this thread? It would be handy to point readers to a place where they can post suggestions or questions.

[Hagar Delest]

In the "more..." section, we could include something like this:

Please don't post the same question to multiple places. If you're not sure where to post, just post it once somewhere--we can always move it to a better place if necessary.

Right, I noticed that from the discussion about oooforum! I've made the changes last hour, my wording may not be so good, if you've a better one, just go with it.

Also (oops, breaking the "one issue" rule ), is there a link directly from the "Survival Guide" to this thread? It would be handy to point readers to a place where they can post suggestions or questions.

You've not read the whole thread! See last post (it has been pushed on the second page in fact because we added some items).

[acknak]

You've not read the whole thread! See last post (it has been pushed on the second page in fact because we added some items).

Oops--you have it exactly. Thanks!

[DrewJensen]

Just a thought -

Take a look at this phpBB mod - for rules and think, what if we changed the string Rules to Guide?

[BETA] Rules mod 1.0.4

In other words do a real simple mod to the mod - Might be a nice way to maintain this type of guide.

There is also another mod that might be used here.
Mini Knowledgebase

I think the first is a better fit however.

[acknak]

That would be great if it could have a layout more like what we have now (hard to tell from the sample). A page of links "Rule 1", "Rule 2", ... is not so nice. I agree, "Guide" would be better as well.

[DrewJensen]

ah - well I meant that layout versus the way it is here - but it was just a thought and since I was trolling the phpBB mod forum anyway thought I would point it out.

[TerryE]

Hagar, I have been thinking about some changes to the Guide. At the moment we have:

• (3) Tell us what OS you're using ->Basic information needed
  (4) Give your message a good title (and other tips) -> Make your post understandable by others
  (9) Tips for a better description of the problem -> Tips for a better description of the problem

and these sort of overlap. Also some of the detail in this last section would be better made earlier in the post, so my proposal would be to restructure these three as follows and in this order:

Make your post easily understandable to others

Whilst you may have a lot of frustrations with your PC and its applications, the most frequent reason for posting is that you want to get help on solving a specific problem. The people who support this forum also want to help you, and the best thing you can do is to put your frustrations aside and described your problem clearly, why you are stuck, and what specific help you need. So some simple pointers here:

• Give a meaningful title to your threads. Try to summarise your problem in a short, snappy title. Remember that many of the supporters this forum have special areas or interest, and that they scan the new posts for questions that can they answer. Using appropriate keywords will attract replies from those with relevant expertise, so for example a Calc expert would be far more likely to open a post called "VLOOKUP not working as expected" than a simple cry "Urgent help needed".
• Remember that we are not psychic. It is very easy to get wrapped up in the frustration and context of your problem when posting, but please remember that those who want to help you can't see your PC, can't see what you are running, and can't see the details of the failure. If you want a quick and effective answer, then it is in everyone's interests for you to spend a little effort in describing what you were doing to get to your problem; how the problem or issue manifests itself; and any other relevant points that might help. The more information that you provide, the quicker we can provide a solution. Trying to find this sort of information out by Q&A is a waste of everybody's time.
• Be polite and constructive in framing your question. Remember that we are all volunteers trying to help the user community. We are not paid by OOo to be abused by frustrated users. So no flames, no CAPS, and no use of font colours and text size as a substitute for shouting. Loud people tend to get ignored. We like a peaceable and quiet forum.
• This is an English speaking forum. So please post in English. If English isn't your first language, then don't worry too much about the niceties of grammar, as we are an easy-going lot. However do try to break your post into separate simple sentences, so that the readers can understand what you say. If you have any specific technical terms and you can't find an English translation then quote them in your language, because some of our readers might understand the translation and help you out. By the same rules any replies will also be in English.

Always give us the information

Basic Information

Please be sure to tell us

• What operating system (OS) and version, for example in the case of XP you can find this by right-clicking on My Computer.
• What OpenOffice.org (OOo) version you are using (this is in the Help->About box) (especially for Linux users : it can be the distribution version or the official one downloaded from the OOo web site).
• What OOo application you are running.
• Any other environmental context that is relevant (e.g. printer device and model if you have a printing problem).

This basic information is often necessary to answer the question, and will help you get an answer faster. NB: you can use the signature field in your user profile (see your User Control Panel at top of page) to record your OS and OOo details, but don't forget to update it when you upgrade.

Problem Specific Information

Do you remember anything special before the issue appeared ? OS upgrade, application installation, firewall/antivirus update, ... Does the problem happen with a number of different files or only one (or a few) specifically? Does it happen only with new files? Only with pre-existing files? Only with files of a particular format? Does the problem involve another program such as Word, or another piece of equipment such as a printer? Include that software version or model number (if possible).

Remember that you are far more likely to get a specific fix if those who are replying can recreate the problem themselves. So try to distil the issue down to as simple a test case as possible. Describe exactly the interaction which triggers the issue. For example if you are executing a menu function then spell out exactly how to get to that function — for example: File->Save As; or Tools->Options->OpenOffice.org->Writer-> Appearances.

An example is worth a thousand words. If the problem is complicated to describe, or is very specific to the file that you are working on then take a screenshot or create a copy that you can post here so others can see what you're seeing. See Attaching screenshots and test cases for more details on how to do this.

OOo is based on styles. How have you applied your formatting ? Beware that using the toolbar buttons applies a Direct formatting that overrides the styles.

Attaching screenshots and test cases

Screenshots

• In XP you can snap the screen to the clipboard by pressing the PrntScrn key.
• If you then open Paint and press Ctl-V, this will paste the screen image into Paint for editing.
• Now make sure that you are in select mode and define a rectangular region around the bit of the screen which is relevant. Press Ctl-C to copy this.
• Now Ctl-N and “No” to open a new blank, then Ctl-V to get just the clipped image.
• Now do a File->Save As and select PNG type. (This is the most compact way of saving typical screen shots). Save to a temporary file.

Test files

• You can only upload attachments to your posts, but these are limited to 128Kbytes per post. Also the file extension are limited to standard OOo file types, PNG and other standard image types and ZIP files. If you need to upload a different type (e.g. a DOC file) then ZIP it first.
• Given the size limitation try to remove as much of the unnecessary content as possible. For example if your problem is with a text document then can you delete all but the offending page? Or slide in the case of Impress, etc.
• Be aware that the attachment once uploaded will be publicly accessible, so make sure that no personal or private date is included within it. A good way to “anonymise” a document is to use a Regular expression search and replace for [b-z] to a and [0-8] to 9, though clearly you may need to leave critical words and numbers intact.
• The general goal here is to create as simple and bland an example as possible which still enables you to recreate your problem.

Uploading Attachments

• You will find the Upload attachmenttab at the foot of the post form. You can browse you PC and select the attachment you want. I keep things simple and put mine on the Desktop. Once uploaded they can be deleted. Remember to include a meaningful comment.
• When you submit the post any attachments are uploaded.
• Remember that inappropriate attachments will be deleted by the moderators, so no abuse of this please.

[acknak]

Wonderful information and presentation!

I'm not sure though if you're suggesting this as a change to the "front page" or the "back page(s)".

Whatever we do, the front page should be be short and specific. It's better (just my opinion, of course) to have three short, specific suggestions with some overlap, than to have one general "make it understandable" guideline.

If those specific items all point to a longer general section at the back, that's fine, but someone should be able to get the most important ideas in just a few seconds, because that's all most people will give up.

I would dearly love to have some actual measurements of

• How many users actually see the guide at all?
• Of those who see it, how much do they read?
• Of those who read it, how many understand it?

And based on that information, determine steps to make it more effective.

It seems to be doing some good. I think the level of people who do give the basic information is better than I saw on oooforum (and rising, maybe?), but there are still a lot of people who don't. Are they not seeing the guide, or are they seeing it and not getting it?

[DrewJensen]

I have been looking at an available modification that can force a member to read a particular announcement before it will allow them to browse the forums.

It can , I believe need to finish checking it completely, be set to have this only for new accounts - first login or for all accounts next login, which also becomes first login for new accounts going forward.

It might be a way to go - can't guarantee that a person reads the topic of course, but we can make them at least see it one time.

[TerryE]

At the moment this sticky is structured as an Intro + 9 subsidiary posts. My suggestion would replace subsidiary posts 3,4 and 9 and reword the intro accordingly. The main change is to add the detail in post 9 because I get fed up with telling people how to do this. The previous content of 9 was rolled into 3 and 4 to keep the overall numbering and structure as similar as possible. I probably need to get my "precis" pen out and trims a little of the fluff, but I feel that this just about covers all the points that we need the posters to understand.

The two tweaks that I could add would be (i) a description of how to capture images under Linux, (ii) the alternative of sending the test case as a mail attachment to one of the experts that respond.

Still waiting for Hagar's comments before I implement any changes.

[acknak]

I'm not sure the "Survival Guide" should be that document, but there does need to be a "vital information" document provided to everyone who registers. The guide could be a link from that.

Could this be part of the registration email? Oh right, you said that is severely limited in size.

Maybe that's a plus? Cut it down to the essential information (whatever that is) and a link or three. We should be able to do that in a few sentences.

We should be extremely wary (IMO) about "forcing" people to do something. I know I don't like it, and I think most people don't like it. If we do "require" people to view something, it should be extremely short and have very obvious value.

[DrewJensen]

I would agree with all that.

I don't think the validation email is the right place - the email should have one good focus I think.

One possibility might the page you are taken to when you click on that validation link?

Let me think about that a bit - prod me if I think to long, ok.