When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

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When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby martin_l_77084 » Sat May 12, 2012 7:51 am

More and more of the people that I communicate with are sending me MS Office 7 & 10 documents that I need to be able to open and edit.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby RoryOF » Sat May 12, 2012 8:01 am

Then acquire MS Office.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Villeroy » Sat May 12, 2012 10:22 am

This program will never write OOXML properly, not in this decade.
Either you buy MSOffice or you open that shit in whatever suitable program.

Windows users can use the free (as in free beer) viewers from Microsoft.
These viewers come from the people having the source code of the one and only reference implementation and not only the format specs.
3 viewers to read 7 file formats[*] in 155 MB. This is a higher download volume than the full blown AOO suite.
[*] rtf, doc(x), xls(x), ppt(x) not including the XML formats of 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download ... aspx?id=13 [60MB]
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download ... .aspx?id=4 [24MB]
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download ... aspx?id=10 [71MB]
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby TheGurkha » Sat May 12, 2012 4:58 pm

LibreOffice makes a good attempt to work with those formats, but it isn't perfect.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Villeroy » Sat May 12, 2012 5:58 pm

LibreOffice makes things worse. Instead of exporting doc/xls almost perfectly it exports broken docx/xlsx without any technical reason. There is no reason to export docx/xlsx as long as MSOffice fully supports the older binary formats.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby peterroots » Sat May 12, 2012 6:39 pm

One could argue that as MS saves docx etc in a broken OOXML format then anyone trying to export docx should also use a broken OOXML format (admittedly preferable to break the OOXML standard in the same way MS does but they don't let on what they do so it makes that tricky). Then again, I might get told off for being cynical/flippant. At least LO lets you have a stab at using MS documents even if not perfect.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Villeroy » Sat May 12, 2012 8:07 pm

The MS believers do not care if MS follows any standards as long as they are backwards compatible with their own rubbish.

1. OOXML and the respective applications know advanced features that could not be encoded in the old file formats simply because the features did not exist in Office XP and due to restrictions of the binary formats. These advanced features do not exist in AOO/LibO neither. This causes a lot of problems when importing documents with new features. AOO/LibO does not even warn when they have to ignore OOXML attributes.
2. There are far too many bugs with trivial features and existing but unsupported features when LibO exports OOXML. Quick demo with any version of OOo/LibO: Freeze a spreadsheet at cell B2, save as xlsx. Close and re-open.
3. Writing OOXML helps spreading this pestilence of a file format. Writing docx/xlsx format as well as doc/xls requires that *all* the advanced features need to be implemented even if they are not part of ODF or in conflict with ODF. When LibreOffice gets so far ahead, say next decade, there is no need anymore why anybody should use ODF and MS will introduce the next shit which will be adopted of course.
Supporting a volatile non-standard is not an option. Nobody can win this rat race paid by MS users who do not even understand the game.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Hagar Delest » Sat May 12, 2012 9:18 pm

Better avoid the OOXML format, have a look at: MS Office 2007 OOXML file format (docx, xslx, pptx, ppsx).
Standards like ODF (native format for OOo) have been designed for interoperability. OOXML has not bee designed for that. MS will continue the vendor lock-in policy to keep their market shares...
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby peterroots » Sat May 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Ah, standards - properly thought out and approved by peer review or forced through by underhand means. Now which was it that came from MS (but never implemented by MS) and which is it that OOo/LO/anyone with brains uses? Next thing somebody will be trying to tell us the Ribbon interface is the new 'standard' way of doing things!
Pity though that locked in proprietary 'standards' like doc, xls, docx, xlsx are here to stay and we have to accept they are here and be able to deal with such ****. If we don't then there is no chance of people moving away to other software/other document formats
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Villeroy » Sat May 12, 2012 10:33 pm

The LibreOffice developers should concentrate on the best possible import of OOXML. I wish they never introduced the write filters. These filters are poison.
There use to be quite a few issues when importing complicated doc/xls from MSO. Exported doc/xls files seem to be almost perfect.
With OOXML the situation is so much worse. We may import OOXML and fiddle around with the flaws and shortcomings of our import filters but we can not trust anymore that exported OOXML looks right in MSO. But since this is the latest shit, people insist upon using it (must be "better" somehow).
With AOO export to OOXML is not an option so people are forced to use the best availlable export filter which is fully supported by MSO.
Another problem is that many people do not use PDF. They use editable MSO formats for their curriculum vitae. PDF is the most elegant solution for finished documents.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby peterroots » Sat May 12, 2012 11:07 pm

+1 for more use of pdf
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby crusader » Sun May 13, 2012 1:38 am

martin_l_77084 wrote:More and more of the people that I communicate with are sending me MS Office 7 & 10 documents that I need to be able to open and edit.
You have that many more people to educate about OO/LO and FOSS in general...
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby henke54 » Wed May 16, 2012 10:24 am

martin_l_77084 wrote:More and more of the people that I communicate with are sending me MS Office 7 & 10 documents that I need to be able to open and edit.

My 'advice' ... : tell those people that you communicate with, that you cannot open that shit, and that they better use ODF to communicate.
Because when i send some info,they wanted from me, on an ODF spreadsheet(ods) , they used to send me back ; "i cannot open it, can you send me it in doc/docx/etc.- format ?" ... I used to 'transform' it then....but now, NOT ANYMORE ... i now tell them to download openoffice/libreoffice or they can sit and wait 'till pigs fly' ... :P :ouch:
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby /a3 » Thu May 17, 2012 1:31 am

Perhaps relevant?
We Can Put an End to Word Attachments by Richard Stallman.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Charlie Young » Thu May 17, 2012 7:27 am

/a3 wrote:Perhaps relevant?
We Can Put an End to Word Attachments by Richard Stallman.


+1

Excellent article.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby kingfisher » Thu May 17, 2012 8:14 am

Some people are even arrogant and stupid enough to send documents created by MSFT Publisher.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby /a3 » Thu May 17, 2012 8:34 am

kingfisher wrote:Some people are even arrogant and stupid enough to send documents created by MSFT Publisher.

Ahh, now that sounds all too familiar, for some reason... :lol:
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Barbossa » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:29 pm

For best results I recommend using FreeOffice.

I use the pay-for SoftMaker Office because it has the best import and export filters for Microsoft Office formats, but FreeOffice (also by SoftMaker) has the same filters integrated. I never had any problems with SoftMaker Office opening and editing doc/x, xls/x oder ppt/x files, whilst OpenOffice and LibreOffice messed up 80% of them. FreeOffice has some more merits, if you're interested you can get it here for free:

freeoffice.com
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby eugenej » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:25 am

kingfisher wrote:Some people are even arrogant and stupid enough to send documents created by MSFT Publisher.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with stupidity or arrogance, maybe Publisher is the software that's on their computer, so that's what they use. As an IT professional if I can't deal with a particular file format a client sends, then that's my problem not there's.
The only times I've ever recommended a client use a different format, is when it will improve the quality of the finished product (eps, ai etc. instead of jpg for example)
The attitudes on this thread, and many others like it, are quite astounding.
"docx" is the default document format produced by the most popular office suite, if OpenOffice can't handle it properly that is a problem with OpenOffice, end of story.
My clients should not have to alter their workflow because I'm too stupid or arrogant to deal with the document types they send me.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:20 am

If users are fine with the vendor lock-in policy from MSFT, then there is no problem, up to them. AOO is not a (free) MS Office clone (as many new users believe).
IMHO, the main point of AOO is to propose an open alternative with ODF.

If the problem is with AOO because you need .docx support for your business, then buy MS Office and forget about AOO, period.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby floris v » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:52 am

eugenej wrote:
kingfisher wrote:Some people are even arrogant and stupid enough to send documents created by MSFT Publisher.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with stupidity or arrogance, maybe Publisher is the software that's on their computer, so that's what they use. As an IT professional if I can't deal with a particular file format a client sends, then that's my problem not there's.
The only times I've ever recommended a client use a different format, is when it will improve the quality of the finished product (eps, ai etc. instead of jpg for example)
The attitudes on this thread, and many others like it, are quite astounding.
"docx" is the default document format produced by the most popular office suite, if OpenOffice can't handle it properly that is a problem with OpenOffice, end of story.
My clients should not have to alter their workflow because I'm too stupid or arrogant to deal with the document types they send me.


Compatibility of word processors and even programming languages has always been a problem. Software is, after all, an ideal terrain for vendor lock-in. Get down to it. The safest way to keep your clients and other partners in business happy is to work with the same software as they do. Use MSO for MSO users, and OO for OO users. And please quit the bashing. You use this or other software to be productive, and bashing isn't productive, ever.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Hagar Delest » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:32 pm

floris v wrote:Use MSO for MSO users, and OO for OO users.

Note that since AOO use ODF, ODF users should be able to use ANY application that supports (correctly) ODF.
This is a huge difference.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Villeroy » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:39 pm

http://www.soft-ware.net/sun-odf-plugin makes MS Office fully ODF compatible.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby henke54 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:38 pm

some 'tidbits' :
Gopan Kesavan at thehindubusinessline.com on December 29, 2013 wrote: As we all know, the process of e-filing taxes is now pretty easy. Download the relevant form from the income tax e-filing website, key in the details, click buttons to validate, calculate taxes and upload the generated returns file. One can also pay taxes online.
But there is a small problem. Something many of us probably know by now. The forms are in Microsoft Excel file format.
The Excel “macro” feature used in tax forms released by the Income Tax department means that free software — such as OpenOffice, LibreOffice, etc. that otherwise support Microsoft Excel files, not to mention cheaper alternatives from Microsoft itself, like MS Office Starter Edition — cannot be used on those forms.
In short, any tax payer trying to file income tax online in India has a fairly expensive dependency on Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Windows.


Glyn Moody at computerworlduk.com on 10 December 13 wrote:Readers with good memories may remember various key fights over the years that were largely about ODF and OOXML. The first round culminated in the extraordinarily shoddy fast-tracking of OOXML through the ISO standards process. Then we had a big battle over open standards in general, which also involved ODF and OOXML, where the UK government performed a dizzying series of U-turns.
That was over two years ago, and it struck me that after years of sound and fury, and all the work the open source community put into supporting ODF and open standards, we have recently heard nothing about the use of ODF by the UK government. That is, OOXML seems to have won be default. Indeed, it is striking that practically every document from the UK government is in OOXML format: for a while, there was an attempt to offer ODF formats too, but clearly people in UK government have given up even pretending to be fair here.
But now, it seems, we are to have another chance to persuade the UK government to provide a level playing field for open standards, open source and ODF:


Paula Rooney at zdnet.com on August 15, 2012 wrote:Microsoft on Monday indicated in a blog that its next version of Office 2013 will offer robust interoperability with ODF 1.2 and PDF and this could be a nice deal for OpenOffice backers.
In a blog, executives said Office 2013 will offer interoperability support for all ODF 1.2 specifications including spreadsheet formulas and digital signatures, two of the most significant advancements in the OASIS Open Document Format 1.2 standard formally published in January.


Gray Knowlton at (M$)blogs.office.com on August 13, 2012 wrote:Microsoft continues to lead in giving customers choice and flexibility in file format standards and interoperability. With these enhancements, Microsoft Office now provides full read and write support for the most commonly used document format standards, including ISO/IEC 29500 (Strict Open XML and Transitional Open XML), ISO 32000 (PDF), and OASIS ODF 1.2. So no matter which of these formats your documents are in today, you will be able to work with them in the next release of Office. And you will be able to save your Office documents in any of these formats, providing the broadest options for document format interoperability.

:roll:
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby jedchase » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:16 am

Beware of the sun-odf program. One it's in German, and no offense, but I can only read some German. That said, it installed some search program, though, I could read the rest to keep them from installing.

It deleted two crucial files, and now my computer is in a continuous loop and will not start windows.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby unix-cowboy » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:35 pm

RoryOF wrote:Then acquire MS Office.


Not Really Feasible ..
And shoulsn't be necessary...

I have 2 people who create docx files because they use Macs or Apples.
Not their fault MS has screwed up the extensions...

OO "used" to be able to open docx extensions since ver 3.? ( don't remember the actual version )
Recently I upgraded to ver 4.0.1 and lost the ability to read docx files...
I run win XP and Vista and 7 - all 3 windows lost the ability to convert....

I removed 4.x and reinstalled it - no go...
I removed 4.x and installed 3.4 - still no go...

what happened ??

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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby thomasjk » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:39 pm

What happens when you try to open them? Any error message? Libreoffice does open .docx files. See http://www.libreoffice.org/download
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby Hagar Delest » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:18 pm

unix-cowboy wrote:OO "used" to be able to open docx extensions since ver 3.? ( don't remember the actual version )
Recently I upgraded to ver 4.0.1 and lost the ability to read docx files...
I run win XP and Vista and 7 - all 3 windows lost the ability to convert....

I removed 4.x and reinstalled it - no go...
I removed 4.x and installed 3.4 - still no go...

what happened ??

Are you talking about files that you did open with previous versions and that fail now?
If they are new files you had never tried to open, it may be a problem in those new files.

NB: OOXML is still part of the vendor lock-in policy so don't expect miracles...
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby lgusaas » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:10 am

unix-cowboy wrote:I have 2 people who create docx files because they use Macs or Apples.
Not their fault MS has screwed up the extensions...

Are they using MS Word? Or are they using Apples's Pages app?

There is a problem opening .docx files created with Pages 5 and a bug report has been filed.

Have them send documents as PDF's or as a .doc file.

Note: LibreOffice won't open .docx files created with Pages 5 either.
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Re: When can we expect docx, etc. compatability?

Postby unix-cowboy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:59 pm

Not certain which pgm they are using - MS or Pages...

Did go back and check older docs they submitted and they were using
MS Word 97-2003 ...

My bad -
should have thought of checking older docs myself . . .
As a former sysadmin that was usually one of my first questions whenever users called to tell me
they had problems ...

Guess I'm getting old faster than I thought ... :-(
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