Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Talk about anything at all....

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:04 am

Bill wrote:
I'll give you one anyway. Have you ever seen a Ribbon with a menu bar?


:lol: :lol: is that your answer? i asked you almost 2 days ago and were you able to figure out only this one? :lol: :lol:
just the lack of menu bar in Ribbon makes Renaissance a completely different product? really? :ucrazy:
and what about big chunky icons? vertical icon groups wasting screen space? tabs? lack of customization? are those differences? :ucrazy: :ucrazy:

Bill wrote:
I've never pretended that you believe the Renaissance prototype UI is different from the Ribbon.


interesting... these are your words in a previuos post...
Bill wrote:The prototype isn't a Microsoft Ribbon clone.

do you wanna retract this statement now? or you just forgot you said that? :knock:

Bill wrote:
The petition is based on opinions, not facts, and I don't agree with the opinions.


sure. you are free to agree with your opinions and disagree with other people's opinions.
the petition will go on even without you. the counter is never stopping: 260 right now!!!
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Conduct in this forum

Postby tn@BeWo » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:20 am

Hijacking this thread for a discussion of conduct in this forum

Tommy wrote:... :lol: :lol: is that your answer? i asked you almost 2 days ago and were you able to figure out only this one? :lol: :lol:
... : ucrazy:... : ucrazy: : ucrazy:
Just the comment to be expected, whatever the answer.
Proving Bill right:
Bill wrote:If I give you one will you want two? Where does it stop?
Don't you understand that it's exactly this type of behaviour which makes other people, who think before they write, hesitate to answer your "questions" at all?
... and that making up one's mind whether or not to tackle your kindergarten style, while there're more valuable things to do, may take some time, keeps most from commenting it at all?
... and that it was unusual in this forum (at least since I'm reading it) to give posters with your conduct the attention, you're so desperatly craving for?
The style here is usually so polite that people try everything to not call you a troll (read: I don't either), why don't you stop behaving like one?

Tommy wrote:...
Bill wrote:
I've never pretended that you believe the Renaissance prototype UI is different from the Ribbon.
... your words in a previuos post...
Bill wrote:The prototype isn't a Microsoft Ribbon clone.
do you wanna retract this statement now? or you just forgot you said that? :knock:
Again: Read (and if possible think) before writing!
Bill wrote:I've never pretended that you believe the Renaissance prototype UI is different from the Ribbon.
... and that was a direct and correct reference to your preceding post.

Tommy wrote:... you are free to agree with your opinions and disagree with other people's opinions.
This trick of yours worked previously, but doesn't anymore since your spam campaign has become too obvious. Throwing in the cue of "freedom of speech" immediately stuns moderation, while you suppress the possibillity to have a serious discussion about the original topic. Does this give you satisfaction? ... the feeling of might to take over a topic if not a forum?

Tommy wrote:... the counter is never stopping: 260 right now!!!
What a feat! Having enrolled less than 1‰ of the forum members in a spam advertising campaign of several weeks... :roll:
OOo 3.2.1 on ubuntu 10.4, MsWXP, MsW2k
tn@BeWo
Volunteer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:46 am

the problem is that i think Renaissance is cleary inspired to Ribbon.
since i consider Ribbon GUI a disaster, i'm supporting the petition against Renaissance that IMHO will compromise OOo usability.

i know other people could have different opinions.
if you believe Ribbon is a good GUI, you should not have problems to admit the similarities between the 2 GUIs, and from that point of view that would be non problem to admit that OOo is copying a feature that you consider a nice one of MS Office. but it seems that, for some reason that i still don't get, Renaissance-lovers don't wanna say that Ribbon is good

but what i really don't understand is why Bill and other users like him, including Renaissance devs (whose posts i've read in other forums and blog), keep saying Renaissance is different than Ribbon without explaining which are the main differences. Bill took 2 days only to came out with the "menu thing"... come on: is this really enough to say the 2 GUI are different? you say is the proof he is "thinking before speaking"... well, i think that you should not take so much time to find the differences between "an apple" and "a banana"..

regarding the petition, you and others like you try to bring it down minimizing the numbers...
first of it is only from only 2 weeks (not several as you said) and it has 261 single user signatures which are even higher than the comments on GullFOSS blog ( http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/pro ... _interface ) which started almost 1 month ago and has 146 comments (most are from the same user) most of those are negative towards Renaissance.

Moreover the prototype survey, which started more more than 2 months ago (i think June), collected 1800 replyes.
OOo is not telling us how many were positive or negative,but you see that the numbers are not that big...

or are you considering GullFOSS blog and Renaissance survey a failure just because they did not collect millions of comments?
i don't understand why people keeps denying that Renaissance looks very similar to Ribbon.
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Villeroy » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:32 pm

PetitionSpot.com – Sign a Petition, Sign-up for SPAM
Tommy and his Dingo-Dog post from the same subnet.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04, no OpenOffice, LibreOffice 6.4
User avatar
Villeroy
Volunteer
 
Posts: 28664
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Bill » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:01 pm

Tommy wrote:the problem is that i think Renaissance is cleary inspired to Ribbon.
since i consider Ribbon GUI a disaster, i'm supporting the petition against Renaissance that IMHO will compromise OOo usability.

The current UI can also compromise usability.

Take footnotes, for example. With the current UI, you have to know that the footnote can be inserted from the Insert menu, and the footnote settings can be accessed from the Tools menu. With the Ribbon, you only have to know that the Footnotes group is located on the References tab. Both inserting the footnote and changing its settings can be done from the Footnotes group. Which is more usable, the UI where the user has to know two entry points in the UI for completing a task, or the UI where the user has to know one entry point for completing the task?
Bill
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7918
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Dingo-Dog » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:42 am

Bill wrote:The current UI can also compromise usability.

No. You ignore (or want ignore or show to ignore) that trashing actual GUI not only new users must re-lean interface, but old also (with loss of productivity), while logic says that a best way to do things is a way where the effort required is minimized not maximized

Secondary... Do you know HELP ON LINE?

- Menu
- ?
- OpenOffice Guide

or are you, like many other Ribbonisters, a great fan of not-reading-manuals-and-documentation?
User avatar
Dingo-Dog
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:26 pm

Re: First results from Renaissance project

Postby Dingo-Dog » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:49 am

next step will be the stop of all their activities, since their work is useful only to Micro$oft and to developers wanting show their ability to cloning RIBBON GUI. I don't see any kind of future. If you ask for next prototype or implementations, your question is a wrong question. It may seem that you agree with Renaissancers
User avatar
Dingo-Dog
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:26 pm

Re: First results from Renaissance project

Postby Tommy » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:09 am

i'm not agree at all with Renaissancers. :ucrazy:

however i was curious of their next move after the incredible negative welcome that their prototype received on forums, blogs and petition (count update: 270). :roll:

as i said in other forums i don't care if they wanna go on in their project.... the important thing for me is that they leave the standard GUI available as an alternative GUI.

what really pissed me off is the project to completely disable that GUI and force users to adapt to the new Ribbon-like unusable, chunky, fat GUI :crazy:
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:18 am

finally Bill revealed he is a fan of MS Ribbon, amen!!!

your example is not very good since you already don't know how and when the Renaissance GUI will face that issue.

however, anybody with basic computer skills could customize the current GUI with toolbar buttons and/or macros and/or hotkeys to accomplish those tasks with just a few clicks.

no rocket sciences degree is needed to do that... just a little patience to learn how to customize the GUI

my toolbar is completely customized to all my needs, i removed buttons i don't use, i change the order of items in menus, i added buttons for functions and macros on the toolbar.... now it's perfect!!! i do not work at NASA, i have just learnt by the user guide and forums how to do it.
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby tn@BeWo » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:39 pm

Tommy wrote:finally Bill revealed he is a fan of MS Ribbon, amen!!!
Stop it already!

Tommy wrote:however, anybody with basic computer skills could customize the current GUI with toolbar buttons and/or macros and/or hotkeys to accomplish those tasks with just a few clicks... my toolbar is completely customized to all my needs, i removed buttons i don't use, i change the order of items in menus, i added buttons for functions and macros on the toolbar.... now it's perfect!!! ...
Oh great, eventually someone who can help me with that.
I also customize all toolbars immediately, including new icons to save the space that the text would need, trying to adapt them to the needs for the various tasks.

The show stopper comes with the task change: What is helpful for one task is in the way for other tasks, where the buttons become useless, many of them greyed out. So please, tell me how you made them context sensitive.

Second worse bug in the current interface: Any customization, e.g. an edit of the tip-text, makes it lose it's locale dependency. If I customize the English toolbar, the new or changed items will appear in English in the localized UI - if I do it in the localized version, they'll appear localized, when I switch the language to English.
How did you solve that issue?

Another thing is the docking of floating toolbars. The floating windows tend to cover the part of the document you're working on. So you have to dock them. That pushes away the other toolbars and/or bloats the toolbar region. When they disappear again (part task finished) there're either shuffeled other toolbars going (most times partly) into this space, or big areas remain empty.

To minimize the ways that the mouse curser has to travel, it's nice to dock some tool bars at the sides or at the bottom. Unfortunately, the broadest ones - Navigator & Stylist only dock innermost, pushing other toolbars at the same side just too far out from the working area. Any idea how to change that?
OOo 3.2.1 on ubuntu 10.4, MsWXP, MsW2k
tn@BeWo
Volunteer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Bill » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:21 pm

Dingo-Dog wrote:
Bill wrote:The current UI can also compromise usability.

No. You ignore (or want ignore or show to ignore) that trashing actual GUI not only new users must re-lean interface, but old also (with loss of productivity), while logic says that a best way to do things is a way where the effort required is minimized not maximized

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just willing to give up some short-term productivity to gain long-term productivity.

Dingo-Dog wrote:Secondary... Do you know HELP ON LINE?

- Menu
- ?
- OpenOffice Guide

Of course. I often tell users with problems where they can find additional help outside the forums. Do you?

Dingo-Dog wrote:or are you, like many other Ribbonisters, a great fan of not-reading-manuals-and-documentation?

Rubbish! Where did I put that trash can?
Bill
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7918
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Bill » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:44 pm

Tommy wrote:finally Bill revealed he is a fan of MS Ribbon, amen!!!

Did I say that somewhere, or is that your OPINION? I'm still undecided.

Tommy wrote:your example is not very good since you already don't know how and when the Renaissance GUI will face that issue.

That's true, but the problem exists in the current UI, and will continue to exist if Renaissance is scrapped and will continue to affect all users. At the moment, the only hope for fixing this is Renaissance. Usability has been ignored for years. It's time for that to change.

Tommy wrote:however, anybody with basic computer skills could customize the current GUI with toolbar buttons and/or macros and/or hotkeys to accomplish those tasks with just a few clicks.

no rocket sciences degree is needed to do that... just a little patience to learn how to customize the GUI

my toolbar is completely customized to all my needs, i removed buttons i don't use, i change the order of items in menus, i added buttons for functions and macros on the toolbar.... now it's perfect!!! i do not work at NASA, i have just learnt by the user guide and forums how to do it.

I'm happy for you, but customization does have its drawbacks. If a user has to reset his user profile and doesn't have a backup for the profile, the customization is lost and has to be redone. I never customize the standard toolbars/menus. IMO, that would be detrimental to helping other users on the forums since they won't have my customizations.
Bill
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7918
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 am

Don't stop OpenOffice Renaissance project

Postby tn@BeWo » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:28 pm

Bill wrote:If a user has to reset his user profile and doesn't have a backup for the profile, ...
... and doesn't learn to do so after the first loss latest, it's his fault and it'll be hard to convey any help to such users.
While this should be amendable in most cases, I still don't see a solution for the other drawbacks of customized tool bars, some of them mentioned above.

As said, I don't like the prototype at all, but I'm sure it'll never make it into a release. Still, it's a first attempt to tackle the current UI-issues and dumping the project just because the first try of a long try & error / re-try ... chain resulted (quite naturally) in a first error, would be plain stupid.
I'd have preferred to see an approach that tackles the issues from the basis of the current UI, but sometimes it turns out that such legacy would choke off any serious attempts and I'm sure that experienced people putting time & effort into such an endavour have thought this through much more thoroghly than I could.

What admittedly concerns me too, is to read about the paradigma shift. While "task orientated" sounds good, dropping the stylist centered approach would be a great step backwards (and in the direction where I percieve MS as inferior to OOo).
MS has a legacy of secretaries coming from type writers to Word for dos, Word for Windows, ... to the current MS Office. And that legacy forces them to "solutions" like the notorious Ribbon (which I personally don't even know).
OOo, having started a few but crucial decades later, has no need to bow to such legacy.
And it's the stylist centered approach that gave me the diffuse perception of OOo as the conceptually more "modern" suite.
But this big asset of OOo is just extremly poorly conveyed - if at all. Actually it seems like being bashfully hidden.
And that hampers grasping of the concept by new users severely, while they could become productive much more rapidly, if it was presented by the UI according to its value.
OOo 3.2.1 on ubuntu 10.4, MsWXP, MsW2k
tn@BeWo
Volunteer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Don't stop OpenOffice Renaissance project

Postby Bill » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:33 pm

tn@BeWo wrote:What admittedly concerns me too, is to read about the paradigma shift. While "task orientated" sounds good, dropping the stylist centered approach would be a great step backwards (and in the direction where I percieve MS as inferior to OOo).

I haven't found any discussion of such a "paradigm shift" anywhere but in this thread. From my point of view, the current UI has never been stylist centered. It's been centered around menus, toolbars, and keyboard shortcuts. The stylist (the tool used to manage styles) is just one tool that can be activated by a toolbar command. "Task oriented" refers to the way commands are organized on the toolbar(s). The toolbar(s) can be reorganized without dropping the stylist. The stylist can be dropped without reorganizing the toolbar(s). It happens that both shifts were made in the prototype, but that doesn't mean that a shift was made from stylist centered to "task oriented". There were two shifts: from "stylist on toolbar" to "stylist not on toolbar" and from classic toolbars to task oriented toolbar. It should be easy to put the stylist icon back on the toolbar if users want it.
Bill
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7918
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 am


Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:53 pm

it seems that the anti-Renaissance movement did not go unnoticed... :super:

petition still rises!!! now 276!!!
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby tn@BeWo » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:39 pm

Can you also answer above questions after boasting to have solved the correlated problems or is spam-advertising your only "competence"?
OOo 3.2.1 on ubuntu 10.4, MsWXP, MsW2k
tn@BeWo
Volunteer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:09 am

here's your answers, buddy... but beofre reading them, take a piece of bread, i'm giving you some SPAM
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: Petition count is now 277!!! :bravo:

tn@BeWo wrote:The show stopper comes with the task change: What is helpful for one task is in the way for other tasks, where the buttons become useless, many of them greyed out. So please, tell me how you made them context sensitive.


i do not need to make anything context sensitive. if a button is greyed out i do not have to click it since i'm probably doing a task that doesn't require it to be clicked.

tn@BeWo wrote:Second worse bug in the current interface: Any customization, e.g. an edit of the tip-text, makes it lose it's locale dependency. If I customize the English toolbar, the new or changed items will appear in English in the localized UI - if I do it in the localized version, they'll appear localized, when I switch the language to English. How did you solve that issue?


that issue has never been a problem for me.
i have an italian OOo 3.1.1 and i just customize the italian toolbars and menus. i do not switch to other languages.

tn@BeWo wrote:Another thing is the docking of floating toolbars. The floating windows tend to cover the part of the document you're working on. So you have to dock them. That pushes away the other toolbars and/or bloats the toolbar region. When they disappear again (part task finished) there're either shuffeled other toolbars going (most times partly) into this space, or big areas remain empty.


i've always hated floating toolbars. i never use them in any software.
so, again, this is not a problem for me.

tn@BeWo wrote:To minimize the ways that the mouse curser has to travel, it's nice to dock some tool bars at the sides or at the bottom. Unfortunately, the broadest ones - Navigator & Stylist only dock innermost, pushing other toolbars at the same side just too far out from the working area. Any idea how to change that?


in my custom settings i have no docked toolbar at the sides or bottom.
i don't feel i need them. i just works with a couple of horizonatal toolbars on the top.

-------

current GUI surely have its bugs but things that are a showstopper to you could be ininfluent to me and viceversa.
however if the bugs you reported are giving you so much troubles why don't you open issues on OOo Issue tracking system?



Bill said:
IMO, that would be detrimental to helping other users on the forums since they won't have my customizations.


interesting... you are not customizing your OOo to fit your needs, just becuase you wanna help other users who don't have your customizations?
kinda masochistic, isn't it? :knock:
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:22 am

just a few question to Bill... please make a clear final statement on these:

1- do you think Ribbon is a good GUI?
2- do you think Ribbon is a better GUI than the current standard OOo GUI?
3- do you think Renaissance should be directly inspired by Ribbon?
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby tn@BeWo » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:35 am

Tommy wrote:... i do not need to make anything context sensitive. if a button is greyed out i do not have to click it since i'm probably doing a task that doesn't require it to be clicked.
Not even you could think that the problem is to find out that a greyed out buttom is useless. As stated above, the problem is that it's in the way, comsuming valuable space among other things. (Who cried loudest about the clumsy prototype with its waste of space?)
If you haven't encountered that problem, you have not yet tried to do a serious customization.

Tommy wrote:... i do not switch to other languages.
That's, of course, a simplification for you - but doesn't work for others.
If you overstressed it you come to the conclusion that you won't have any issues with OOo, if you simply stop using it.

Tommy wrote:... i've always hated floating toolbars. i never use them in any software.
so, again, this is not a problem for me.
So you didn't understand the question. I want to have them in the tool bar area, too. The problem is their arbitrary shuffling around and leaving big unused areas in that region, a pretty mess in the end.

Tommy wrote:... in my custom settings i have no docked toolbar at the sides or bottom.
i don't feel i need them. i just works with a couple of horizonatal toolbars on the top.
So you make the same mistake that the prototype is accused for: Waste the valuable vertical space, which would be needed for the working area.
If I'd be through with my customizations in that (let's call it flat as distinct from hierachical) way, I get at least a 5 bars thick tool bar area - way too thick to be usable.

Tommy wrote:... current GUI surely have its bugs but things that are a showstopper to you could be ininfluent to me and viceversa.
however if the bugs you reported are giving you so much troubles why don't you open issues on OOo Issue tracking system?
:) that (2nd line) makes me smile...
I'd just like to witness the birth of my favorite UI (and don't precisely know what it'll look like), so waiting for reactions to tracked issues is not an option.
I'll continue fighting with customization until I've reduced above issues to a bearable extent. And I have some ideas how to do it - won't work without some scripting that might evolve to an extension that might even give some inspiration to the Renaissance devs.
OOo 3.2.1 on ubuntu 10.4, MsWXP, MsW2k
tn@BeWo
Volunteer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:50 am

@tn@BeWo

i'm sorry for you but my custom standard GUI is not wasting screen space at all... the real screen waster is Renaissance :roll:

even with the greyed out context sensitive toolbars i still have room for other icons... greys do not give me problems at all.
you say it0s just becuase i haven't tried any "serious customization"... what are you? a GUi guru? how do you need what do i need froma GUI? :ugeek:

and what about my double horizonatal toolbar?
do you really wanna compare the screen space usage of 2 rows of 16x16 pixels icons with that of the chunky, humongous icons of Renaissace/RibbOOon/Ribbon? :ucrazy:
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby tn@BeWo » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:19 am

Well, I need more than a hundred different frequently and repetitively used commands for a handfull of different "task types", like construction of templates, forms, mail merge like tasks, dialogs, ..., to secretary like plain writing for Writer alone. Not too few of these are self made short cuts for otherwise long and error prone sequences of native OOo commands, aka macros.
Thus I come to 5 bar rows, instead of your two. In which 15-20 sub bars would shuffle around. And believe me, that's a mess.

As said, I'm sure that these "icons" of the prototype will never make it into a release. It's just a first study of the underlying mechanics of a more context sensitive concept. If this assumption prove wrong, it'll just create a further fork in the OO scene, with OOo being the fork and whoever will continue developping on basis of the current UI becoming main stream. The Oxygen history may serve as an example. This time it might trigger the birth of an "Ozone".
OOo 3.2.1 on ubuntu 10.4, MsWXP, MsW2k
tn@BeWo
Volunteer
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Bill » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:52 pm

http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadM ... msgNo=3954

I hadn't thought about the marketing strategy as a reason for opposing Renaissance.
Bill
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7918
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 am

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:08 pm

Italo Vignoli is completely right (open and read the above link posted by Bill).

he worked a lot to help the diffusion of OOo and deserves respect for it.

and guess what? he's opposing and criticizing Renaissance and was one of the early users who signed the petition.

you see? the anti-Renaissance group has also people of it's importance in it...

or he has to be considered a "troll", a "nay-sayer", a "spammer", an "ice age GUI lover", or whatever offensive term has been used in many forums and blogs to label the petition supporters by Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers?
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby RoryOF » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:32 pm

Tommy wrote:or he has to be considered a "troll", a "nay-sayer", a "spammer", an "ice age GUI lover", or whatever offensive term has been used in many forums and blogs to label the petition supporters by Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers?


It is _equally_ offensive to term all people who do not adopt the petition side as Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers. There is an old Latin saying "de gustibus non est disputandum" and petition supporters would be well advised to remember that and apply it.
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 20.04.1 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
User avatar
RoryOF
Moderator
 
Posts: 31543
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Villeroy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:29 pm

Bill wrote:http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=3954

I hadn't thought about the marketing strategy as a reason for opposing Renaissance.

Another level of marketing: Turn of your ad-filter and look at the promoted links of the petition page. Judging by the manner how this petition is propagated in forums and lists, I think this is a new way how the scammers try to harvest some clicks since. They lost Google ads for "open office" search results.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04, no OpenOffice, LibreOffice 6.4
User avatar
Villeroy
Volunteer
 
Posts: 28664
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:00 pm

RoryOF wrote:It is _equally_ offensive to term all people who do not adopt the petition side as Renaissance/RibbOOon/Ribbon lovers.


does this imply that the word "Ribbon" is an offense? or is the word "lover" an offense?
remember: i've never user words or offensive labels like "Renaissance trolls" or "Renaissance dumbheads" to define other users.

@Villeroy
regarding the crap links on the petition page i have no financial interest on them.
i just promote the petition because i love OOo and im afraid Renaissance will ruin it.
i simply ignored those crap links... and any intelligent user would not never have been fooled by those.
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby TheGurkha » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:44 pm

Tommy wrote:i simply ignored those crap links... and any intelligent user would not never have been fooled by those.


i've always ignored them too. But we do have threads here started by those who have fallen for their tricks and have parted with money. Willingly or not, you are unfortunately providing a platform for them.
Ubuntu 14.10 Utopic Unicorn, LibreOffice Version: 4.3.3.2
Gurkha Welfare Trust
User avatar
TheGurkha
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6482
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: North Wales, UK.

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Villeroy » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:29 pm

The whole site discredits your concern. Browse a little bit through the different petitions and look at the "sponsored links". The whole suburbia of the internet. Dr. Chung's Magic Ointment, McPfeizer's wonderful pills, adult content, the whole scene of warez and toolz for anybodies self-esteem. "There has to be some money in that crap they call internet. Let's squeeze a little bit and push some emotional buttons ..."
They harvest your mail address and what else together with a clear indication of your interest (the petition). All you get back is the feeling that your voice will be heard.

Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10s0x ... eams_music
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
Ubuntu 18.04, no OpenOffice, LibreOffice 6.4
User avatar
Villeroy
Volunteer
 
Posts: 28664
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Stop OpenOffice Renaissance project (petition)

Postby Tommy » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:05 pm

That petition site has spam links... it is true... and i'm sorry about that even if i did not start or choose that site at the beginning
however, as i said before i have no financial interests with those links despite heavy and offensive insinuations from some Renaissance-lovers (see it on Nabble).

People should simply ignore those links...
however i noticed that the people who are more concerned about those links are the opponents of the petition... which are exactly the only people who are not required to sign it....

interestingly none of the 302 people who signed it in those 3 weeks (did you get that number? More than 300 in just 3 weeks... and it keeps growing!!!) complained about those links...

they probably simply ignored them and focused only on the topic of the petition which is fight against Renaissance GUI. As i said any user with basic internet skills would recognize and ignore those rubbish links...

I suspect that Renaissance lovers are trying to focus the attention on those links because it is their only way left to fight the petition....

they cannot face the numbers (they did not expected such a success and such a consideration on forums, blogs & mailing lists) so they are attacking the petition promoters and the petition itself

remember... 302!!! next time I'll talk the number will be even higher!!!
-----
using latest X-LibreOffice release, made portable by winPenPack.com
http://www.winpenpack.com/main/download.php?view.1354
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:44 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests