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[Solved] Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:05 pm
by Horse
I want to format a novel so there is no blank page before the initial page of a chapter (unlike non-fiction, where every chapter often begins on a recto page). In effect, I think I need a way to set the Next Style (Organizer tab) to Left Page if the page number is odd and Right Page if the page number is even. Alternatively, and not nearly as elegantly, is there a way to turn off headers and turn on footers for a single page--for each chapter start page.
1. I arrived at the page style edit block by right clicking on First Page style, if that makes any difference
2. I have Apache OpenOffice 4.1.2 running on 64-bit Windows 10 Home, if that affects the capability
[Solved? Not really--see next post by Horse: Horse » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:02 pm.]

Re: Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:58 pm
by RoryOF
From memory of a discussion on Forum some years ago in connection with numbering column it is not possible to do any calculation using the page numbers.

In my writings I always start a Chapter on a recto page (whether fiction or non-fiction); the chapter page uses no header line and has a page number in the middle of the footer; this page is followed by "Default" page style, both pages using no footer, verso page header holding page number and book title, recto pages holding chapter title and page number.

I'm thinking about how to manage your requirement automatically and at present cannot see any simple (indeed, any) way to do it. An immediate comment: in your requirement, the first text page of the book - Chapter 1 - will require special handling, as the main text of a book always opens on a recto page.

Re: Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:07 pm
by RoryOF
A first attempt: the Writer's documentation says
New Page per Chapter?

If you want chapters to begin on a new page, then right-click on any chapter heading and choose Edit Paragraph Style; under the tab Text Flow check box Breaks › Insert › Type › Page.


That method will use your standard text page, with header and/or footer, as normal. If you do the click on Chapter heading manually, you could choose Left or Right page, their styles defined as you require, and their subsequent page style set to Default.

My normal method is to modify the heading style used to define the chapter headings and insert the page break and page style select information into that Heading style, so that selection of Heading 1 (in my case) forces a new recto page of a chapter page style, followed by default pages set up as I outlined earlier.

I still cannot see any automatic way of making a chapter heading style decide if the page inserted should be Verso or Recto.

 Edit: One can only turn off a page header/footer by using a page style on which those have been turned off. 

Re: Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:09 pm
by keme
Do you really need separate page styles for recto and verso pages?

  • Headers and footers can be set individually in a single style (untick "same content left/right").
  • Margins can be mirrored if you need different spacing on outer and inner edges.
  • You can have invisible (or, indeed, visible) objects on the page, anchored in header or footer, for more advanced adjustment to the size and shape of the used text area.
If you have significantly different layout of the main text area you may benefit from separate styles, but I cannot envision the situation where it is absolutely required.
Er... well, I can. If you want to consistently alternate portrait and landscape, I guess you would need separate styles. I just don't see the situation where that would be useful.

Turning off page header for a single page without changing style? This is perhaps not possible, but it may be possible to cheat by emptying the header fields. You can probably make it work for chapter name fields, but you need a few empty paragraphs on that or the previous page, and it will be messy.
Turning on page footer for a single page without changing style? I don't think so.

If you don't find any solution in the style settings I mentioned above, you could perhaps outline your specific requirements. Shed some light, and we may be able to enlighten you.

Re: Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:02 am
by Horse
Solved. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

Re: [Solved -- sort of] Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:11 am
by JohnV
It can be done!

Go to page 1 of a new or existing document. In the bottom tool bar* that shows the page numbers right click in the 2nd box which probably says “Default” and change the page style to First Page. Do Format > Page and turn on the footer.

The First Page style is automatically followed by the Default page style so you can also format that page style to have a header and/or footer as desired.

When you get to the end of a chapter (new or existing) do Insert >Manual Break>Page Break and set Style to First Page. If you do this with a doc that already has a chapter 2 then need to tap Delete once to pull that chapter into the blank new page.

You will now have no blank pages between chapters.

* If you don't have this toolbar do View > Status Bar to turn it on.

Re: [Solved -- sort of] Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:47 am
by Horse
Convention requires that all pages (except first pages of chapters) of a novel have a header with the page number on the outside (away from the gutter) and the author's name in the verso header and the novel's title in the recto header. On chapter first pages there should be a footer with only the page number. The problem is that requires three styles, two of which are part of OO. Left Page and Right Page are easy to fix to the desired format by putting in the appropriate header. Each already links to the other so they alternate as required. For the Chapter first page, a different style is required because these pages have no header but do require a footer. This means that each chapter ends with a manual break to set the style for the chapter first page style, which then has to link to Left Page (as it would always do for most non-fiction) for recto chapter first pages, and to Right Page for verso chapter first pages. Eliminating blank pages is easy if pages are not formatted for printing, i.e., if the header/footer and no-blank-page conventions are not followed.

Re: [Solved -- sort of] Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:23 am
by Bill
Horse wrote:Convention requires that all pages (except first pages of chapters) of a novel have a header with the page number on the outside (away from the gutter) and the author's name in the verso header and the novel's title in the recto header. On chapter first pages there should be a footer with only the page number. The problem is that requires three styles, two of which are part of OO. Left Page and Right Page are easy to fix to the desired format by putting in the appropriate header.

What you want to do is easy if you use "Mirrored" page styles instead of "Only Left" and "Only Right" page styles. Only two "Mirrored" page styles are required, one for the first page of each chapter and one for the remainder of the pages in each chapter. If the "Same content left/right" option is unchecked on the Header tab of the Page Style dialog, then different content can be inserted in the headers on the left and right pages.

Re: [Solved -- sort of] Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:19 pm
by RoryOF
I have been able to automate this by using a ChapterPage style, which is mirrored, Footer on, same style left/right, next style Default. Put a PageNumber field in the middle of a ChapterPage footer. I use a Heading style modified on Text flow tab to insert a ChapterPage, so when I come to end of a chapter I switch to that Heading style and the new chapter page commences. The only caveat is to ensure that the first Chapter starts on a right page. This will automatically adjust for text inserted/deleted into the document and keep the chapter pages inserted into flow of text without extraneous blank pages.
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Re: [Solved] Page style for chapter start

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:46 pm
by Horse
Thank you Bill and RoryOF. You've explained it in a way I understand. You KISSed me--Kept [it] Simple [because I'm] Stupid.