[Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

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[Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Tue May 12, 2015 5:52 pm

Is there a way to permanently change the default for "Format: Bullets and Numbering: Position"? I'm trying to set up a webpage, and of course I want all the lists on it to look uniform, but they have different ideas: sometimes the numbering starts and spaces as I want it to, but sometimes I have to change it manually, which is a pain in the rear end. And I never know which is going to happen until I actually start applying the numbering option. I've tried "Reset," but that only seems to work for the current list and maybe one or two subsequent ones; then it pops back to a semi-default, which isn't the regular default anyway.
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Thu May 14, 2015 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tagged [Issue] (link to a bug report).
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Re: Formatting numbering, #2

Postby keme » Wed May 13, 2015 8:41 am

In general, "manual" formatting only adds to inconsistency. Set up your list formatting by way of styles. Can you attach a file to a posting here, showing the issue?

Wordprocessor "html output" (be it Writer, Word, Wordperfect, or some other) inserts all kinds of extra code to maintain the paper relationship in case it is to be imported back to the wordprocessor. It gets messy...
If your main target medium is the web, then use a proper web editor (or a plaintext editor). Use CSS for formatting defaults and HTML for page structure/content. Keep them in separate files (no embedded styles) for scaleability.
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Re: Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Wed May 13, 2015 5:56 pm

Huh?

I'm sorry, you have me hopelessly confused. I don't have a web editor, and if I did I probably couldn't use it; this isn't a do-it-one-time-and-it's-done project, it's something that's going to have to be constantly edited and modified and updated and fixed. I can't do HTML. And how do I "set up my list formatting by way of styles"?

I don't know if I can attach a sample file, because I never know when the problem's going to arise, and if I did I'm not sure I know how to attach things on this forum.

I think I'll just go on struggling. Maybe eventually it will go back to behaving itself, which it was, up to recent.
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Re: Formatting numbering, #2

Postby keme » Thu May 14, 2015 4:40 pm

chrijeff wrote:I'm sorry, you have me hopelessly confused. I don't have a web editor, and if I did I probably couldn't use it.
Don't worry! Confusion is only temporary.

In a bit of a hurry now, But I will get back to you if no one else provides a solution before I can. I promise. You are beginning to ask the good questions :)

In the meantime, you could perhaps provide some detail of what you get and what you want, and also some info on whether your text is only intended as a web page or the same content should be sent to multiple distribution targets (paper, pdf, web).

Attach a copy of your file if possible (see the "Upload attachment" tab below the edit pane when you post a reply).
Last edited by keme on Fri May 15, 2015 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Formatting numbering, #2

Postby acknak » Thu May 14, 2015 6:25 pm

chrijeff wrote:Is there a way to permanently change the default for "Format: Bullets and Numbering: Position"? ...

Ok, so the answer to this is no.

The best way to get consistent configuration of lists is to use a style, as keme already mentioned. A style is just a collection of formatting properties stored together under a name.

The simplest way to get a style is to configure a list as you want it, then create a style from that example:
1) Click anywhere in the list
2) Format > Styles & Formatting: ON
3) Click the rightmost button above the styles list and choose "New style from selection"; enter a name and OK

Once that's done, you can configure any paragraph with the same list configuration just by applying your new style: double-click the name in the styles list.

Note that Writer's list configuration does not translate perfectly into html. I think you have to expect some differences.

I recommend that you always work with the document saved in OO Writer's native format, ODF (.odt for text documents). You can export a copy as html at any point. (File > Save As ...) but you should always go back to the ODF document for further changes.

If you have specific problems, it will be much easier to discuss if you can attach a copy of the .odt document and describe exactly what the problem is and what steps you're using when you see the problem.
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Re: Formatting numbering, #2

Postby Hagar Delest » Thu May 14, 2015 9:47 pm

It's an old request: Issue 9437 - Change default bullet type.

You can register and vote for it (up to 2 votes).
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby keme » Mon May 18, 2015 11:38 pm

With no clue given about what happens to the list items, it is very difficult to give specific advice. My general views on numbered lists in Writer may apply to the issue at hand, or not.

Defaults for numbered lists in Writer are usable, but need a bit of work to look good. Lists with single digit numbering don't look so bad, but as soon as numbering width varies, it gets ugly. Most lists look better with numbers right aligned and a small gap between number and text. Try this to get a feel of the options:
  • Select menu item Format - Bullets and numbering...
  • Select the Position tab.
  • Select list item level 1
    Position settings:
    • Set numbering to be followed by tab.
    • Set that tab stop to 1,4 cm
    • Set numbers to align right
    • Adjust numbers to 1,2 cm. This should make room for 4 digits inside margin with normal text font size.
    • Set indent (only relevant for multiline points) somewhere between 1,0 and 1,4 cm.
  • If you make multilevel lists, make similar settings for higher levels, increasing all position numbers by the same amount.
If you use a large font size, you will need to increase spacing by using larger numbers.
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Re: Formatting numbering, #2

Postby jrkrideau » Tue May 19, 2015 12:08 am

chrijeff wrote:Huh?

I'm sorry, you have me hopelessly confused. I don't have a web editor, and if I did I probably couldn't use it; this isn't a do-it-one-time-and-it's-done project, it's something that's going to have to be constantly edited and modified and updated and fixed. I can't do HTML.


One popular open source webeditor is kompozer
http://www.kompozer.net/
Here is a list of html editors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTML_editors

I know just about nothing about HTML except it is a markup language and I started wordprocessing with STML SGML. :)

It is probably best to use a dedicated tool if you are going to be editing etc on a regular basis.

I know if I was going to do a lot of HTML work I would not be using Writer. It is just not designed for the job.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Wed May 20, 2015 8:29 pm

"Defaults for numbered lists in Writer are usable, but need a bit of work to look good. Lists with single digit numbering don't look so bad, but as soon as numbering width varies, it gets ugly. Most lists look better with numbers right aligned and a small gap between number and text."

Yes, I know that, and I know how to format them; the problem is that having formatted, the format doesn't "stick" throughout the file. I might have, say, 200 separate lists on a given file, and they're all formatted the way I want them, but if I want to put a new list in, it may format properly or it may not. And when it doesn't, it doesn't even format the wrong way twice consistently. Sometimes it's 1.2", sometimes it's 0.78", sometimes it's 0.37"... you get the idea. That's why I want to be able to reset the default and have it format *the same way every time*.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby acknak » Wed May 20, 2015 8:58 pm

chrijeff wrote:... I want to be able to reset the default and have it format *the same way every time*.

The solution is to use a list style (or set of styles) and not depend on the built-in toolbar formatting.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Wed May 20, 2015 9:34 pm

Exactly what I want someone to tell me how to do. I *think* I did what you described in your previous posting, but until I try to insert a new list in that file, I won't know if it worked; and if it didn't, what further options, if any, do I have?
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby acknak » Wed May 20, 2015 9:39 pm

I don't know of any way it can "not work" as long as you follow the steps. If you try it and it's not working, then tell us exactly what steps you followed and what happened and we can try to figure out what's happening.

Just be aware: this is not automatic. You have to specifically apply your list style, either using the Styles & Formatting window (or side bar) or by configuring a custom keyboard shortcut. Or you could attach the list style to a paragraph style and apply that.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Tue May 26, 2015 9:54 pm

Well, it didn't. I did what you described in your post of May 14, and as far as I can tell, the command didn't even save. I'll just have to go on doing it the slow picky manual way.

Maybe you should try to fix this for the next version of Open Office. I don't recall having this problem with Word, when I used that.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby keme » Wed May 27, 2015 11:03 pm

Attached is a Writer template with numbering styles 1 and 2 set to arabic and roman numbering, respectively. I also attached a config file...

Download the file. Double click the template file to start a new document.

Edit: Uploading a config file is not allowed here, so I haven't attached the one I made. Sorry!

To set the shortcut keys, select menu item Tools - Customize and the Keyboard tab where you can modify shortcut keys manually. Scroll down to select the key combinations you want to use, in the lower panes select category Styles - Numbering and function "Numbering 1" or "Numbering 2". Click the update button to assign style to keypress.

Hopefully, this constitutes a workable solution to your issue. If you still have erratic lists, post back with a sample file.

Also, we are users in this forum, not developers. IOW we are not the ones to "fix it for a future version".
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby Bill » Thu May 28, 2015 7:04 am

chrijeff wrote:I'll just have to go on doing it the slow picky manual way.

Have you ever noticed that little paintbrush icon on the toolbar? It's called the Format Paintbrush. Look it up in Help.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Fri May 29, 2015 7:27 pm

"To set the shortcut keys, select menu item Tools - Customize and the Keyboard tab where you can modify shortcut keys manually. Scroll down to select the key combinations you want to use, in the lower panes select category Styles - Numbering and function "Numbering 1" or "Numbering 2". Click the update button to assign style to keypress."

I DID that. It doesn't work. As far as I can tell, the command didn't even save; I didn't see the name I gave it on the dropdown. Ergo, it is NOT working. Manual is the only way to go.
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby keme » Sat May 30, 2015 8:33 pm

IIRC, the dialog was identical for version 3.1. When you click the "Update" (or perhaps it's called "Modify") button in the description above, the rightmost of the 3 lower panes should display the selected keypress alongside the selected style.
- Did anything happen in that 3rd pane?
- Did you click the OK button to close that dialog? (If you use escape or the X icon in the corner, you cancel the changes)
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Re: [Issue] Formatting numbering, #2

Postby chrijeff » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:16 pm

It was more than two weeks ago. I've been asleep a few times since. All I know is, I gave it a name, and that name is NOT on the dropdown.
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