[Solved] Ineffective Templating

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[Solved] Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:47 am

I have downloaded & installed the Template Manager. I now have the menu item to File / Templates / Assign template (current document) ...

But, it does not work - at least not for my needs.

I created a template (.ODT file) with the page size I use (5.5"x8.5" [statement size paper, I keep it in my printer]) for my recipe notebooks. I can open the template to edit & it is the correct 5.5"x8.5" size. However, when I try to assign that template to my current document, The document retains the 8.5"x11.5" standard page size.

This negates any ability to use the program as I will have to manually reformat every one of my 3000+ recipes manually, making the software virtually useless. I would ESPECIALLY like to be able to import my 3,000+ MS-Word 10 documents that are formated (in MS-Word, from a template that works perfectly in MS-Word) with the 5.5"x8.5" page size and have them open up in OOW with the 5.5"x8.5" page size so that I do not have to MANUALLY format EVERY ONE!

It is bad enough that I am having troubles importing from MS-Word 10 because of the ASCII Character Format being asked hundreds of times for each of my 3 cookbooks (folders & sub-folders), but this is a deal killer.

If anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong, I'd be very grateful.

Thank you,
David
San Antonio, TX
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tagged solved
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:57 am

I would ESPECIALLY like to be able to import my 3,000+ MS-Word 10 documents that are formated (in MS-Word, from a template that works perfectly in MS-Word)

The formatting method of the MS Word documents and the Styles in the ODF templates are not compatible. Importing the styles from an ODF template will not properly re-format your MSO documents.

You must adjust the (most of the) formatting methods manually after converting your documents from MS format to the International Standard Open Document Format (ODF).
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:04 am

Zizi64 wrote:
I would ESPECIALLY like to be able to import my 3,000+ MS-Word 10 documents that are formated (in MS-Word, from a template that works perfectly in MS-Word)

The formatting method of the MS Word documents and the Styles in the ODF templates are not compatible. Importing the styles from an ODF template will not properly re-format your MSO documents.

You must adjust the (most of the) formatting methods manually after converting your documents from MS format to the International Standard Open Document Format (ODF).


So, there's no way to get my recipe documents to open up with the 5.5"x8.5" format I have for their MS-Word.docx originals? I will have to manually format EVERY. SINGLE. FILE???

That presents another issue:

I have installed the Template Extension, so now I have the ability to use a .OTT file that I created with the 5.5"x8.5" format. I can open the .OTT file in OOW, and it is the desired size. But, when I try to assign that template ( File | Templates | Assign template (current document)... ) to the converted-from "MS-Word.docx" file, it does not change the page size. If I could get that to work, I it would at least save me the page size formatting, since that is the only thing I really need to do with the converted recipe files.

I have opened a NEW file ( File | New | Templates and Documents | Recipes ) and it properly formats the page size to fit my 5.5"x8.5" paper. I'm not sure why I cannot assign the template to an existing file and have it work correctly. Any thoughts on THIS templating issue?

I really do appreciate the coaching.
THANK YOU!!!

David Labens
San Antonio, TX
Last edited by DarkFlame on Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Villeroy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:09 am

Open the foreign file.
File>Templates>Save... enter name
Now you have an ODF template
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:12 am

Also, when I try to assign the recipes.ott template to a newly created in OOW blank page, it does not format the page size.

Maybe there's a different template manager that will apply page sizes.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:14 am

Villeroy wrote:Open the foreign file.
File>Templates>Save... enter name
Now you have an ODF template


I have a template I created in OOW, saved it as an OTT file. It works properly when I create a NEW document in OOW, but it loses the page size when I assign it to an existing document.

What's up with that?
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:49 pm

I have a template I created in OOW, saved it as an OTT file. It works properly when I create a NEW document in OOW, but it loses the page size when I assign it to an existing document.


The older MS file formats can not handle the page styles. Every pages that was formatted differently (manually!) in the MS file, will be converted into many-many individual Page Styles when you open them with the AOO. You must re-organized the structure of the pages in the ODF file (manually!).
Note: there is not (never was and never will be) 100% compatibility between the different file types.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Villeroy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:03 pm

File>Templates>Edit...
Find the page style named "Default" (possibly named "Standard" in non-Englisch environments) and change its size property. It should change the sizes of the other styles too.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby keme » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:18 pm

Before you proceed further, did you try the document conversion wizard? When your Word documents are already in the correct size, perhaps you don't need the additional template applied. Or did I miss something?
 Edit: Just opened your other thread, which is what I missed. You clearly are aware of the wizard, and your issues are partly related to the output from that. So my response here is mere noise to you. I leave it anyway, as a reference for other visitors with similar problems. 

The wizard allows saving to a different folder. Please enter a new target folder for converted files. Saving both in the same folder can get messy. If you like, you can merge the folders after conversion (just copy content from one folder into the other).

The wizard also handles subfolders. Tick the subfolders option.
Last edited by keme on Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby robleyd » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:24 pm

For those who may be interested, the other topic is Issues converting from MS-Word 10 to OO Writer about the issues DarkFlame encountered with the conversion wizard.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:29 pm

Yes, I did convert the entire top folder, & it copied all the sub-folders with items in them. It did not copy the empty sub-folders (I have a file structure that I use for every category, and some of the sub-folders are empty place-holders for files that will go into them in the future - as a recipe progresses from "Recipes To Try" to "Recipes In Process" to "Recipes We Love" to "Recipes to Publish" to "Published Recipes." - the recipe starts in the 1st one and progresses through the sub-folders as my work with the recipe gets it to the point of being published - this is the "work-in-progress" process for populating the web site I am creating.

I will try to change the "Default" template to the page size I want. Maybe that will set the pages for the size I want, & I won't have to convert any of them individually, or especially not manually.

Thanks,
David Labens
San Antonio, TX
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:45 pm

DarkFlame, can you upload one or more specific sample document (the original file type ones) containing those properties of the pages and other properties?
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Bill » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:54 pm

@DarkFlame: Please upload one of the .docx documents that is causing problems and your template so they can be used for testing. I used LO to create several dummy 5.5" x 8.5" documents and saved them as .docx files. I then used the Document Converter in AOO 4.1.5 to convert the files to .odt. The resulting .odt files retained the 5.5" x 8.5" size, so I have no idea why your documents revert to 8.5" x 11" when converted. AFAIK, the conversion process should never change the page size. Doing so would be an obvious bug, but no such bug has been reported.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:29 am

I have tried to upload a file, but the system just spins & spins & spins, then stops without any kind of notice why it did not upload a file. Even worse, when I typed that I was trying, & did the upload routine, it didn't even post that I was trying. I'm expecting it to post this message, in which case, I'll have to figure out how to get the 3 files uploaded SOMEWHERE to which I can post a link here. Clearly, it does not like my attempts to upload a file following the instructions provided.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:18 am

I have tried to upload a file, but the system just spins & spins & spins, then stops without any kind of notice why it did not upload a file.

How you tried it? use the Post Reply button insted of the Quick Reply one. And use the 'Upload attachment' TAB instead of the Copy/Paste (The Copy/Paste of the attachments not work in this forum.)

The file size limit is 128 KiB in this forum. The message about the lager file will be appeared above of the message edit window:

TooBigFile.png
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:30 am

It took far too long on my 6 mbps legacy DSL connection to upload the 3 files to my Google Drive, but it has FINALLY finished. So, I am sharing this folder with anyone who has the link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IUEZp6wpx_89iBbZT5tGLMnGRBq-iaVW?usp=sharing

I will test it to see if it works, if the files can be seen, and if they can be opened. Unless I make changes, however, they are good to go.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:37 am

Zizi64 wrote:
I have tried to upload a file, but the system just spins & spins & spins, then stops without any kind of notice why it did not upload a file.

How you tried it? use the Post Reply button insted of the Quick Reply one. And use the 'Upload attachment' TAB instead of the Copy/Paste (The Copy/Paste of the attachments not work in this forum.)

The file size limit is 128 KiB in this forum. The message about the lager file will be appeared above of the message edit window:

TooBigFile.png


I don't use the "Quick Reply" button, only the "Post Reply" button.

I only use the "Upload attachment" TAB & never copy/paste an attachment (I've never seen that work except within drives on a single network (whether hardwired, wifi, or VPN).

The file sizes are, upon seeing the 128KB limit, greater than that, they have the picture I embedded in the file, which is a high resolution pic and greatly increases the file size. I need to work on a way to get the pictures into the files without lowering their resolution or having such a big file size, but that's a whole 'nother thing for a different forum. So, maybe the file sizes was why they didn't upload. BUT, the .OTT template file is just 12 KB, and I could not even get that to upload. BUT, I am hoping those are a moot point at this point because I did get the files uploaded to the link I included in the previous post.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:43 am

Just an FYI: I logged out of my Google Drive account, opened this thread & clicked on the link I pasted, and I was able to get to the 3 files.

I do find it interesting that the converted .otd file shows with the "W" icon for WinWord instead of the OO logo used for the .ott template. Not sure if the icon means anything.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby robleyd » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:18 am

Not sure if the icon means anything.


It means your OS thinks that .otd files (did you really mean Writer .odt?) are associated with MS Office.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Bill » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:11 pm

I finally got the sample files to download and found that the .docx file was huge at 99MB. The document contains 3 emf graphic images of about 50MB each. By default AOO only has a graphics cache setting of 4.5MB per object and 20MB total, so either the embedded graphics files should to be reduced in size or the graphic cache settings need to be changed in AOO. LO has higher settings by default, but they may still need to be modified. I tried editing the .docx file using LO and my computer locked up when trying to save the edited document until I changed the graphics cache setting. I don't have Windows 10, so I don't know if changing the cache settings will eliminate the ASCII Filter problem.

Regarding the page size problem: AOO seems to have a problem with the page size when opening the .docx file from MS Office. When a copy of the document was saved using LO, AOO opened the copy with the correct page size. This does appear to be an unreported bug.

Regarding the template problem: Assigning the template isn't changing the page size because documents imported from MS Word will use the Default page style which is set to 8.5" x 11.0" in the template. The Recipe page style in the template has a page size of 5.5" x 8.5" but that style will be applied to the first page of new documents only, not imported MS Word documents.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:25 pm

50 MiB file size for a 3.48 x 1.91 cm physical size picture?? It is a nonsense...

Do not use Microsoft related image types, like the .bmp and the .wmf. Optimize your pictures before you insert them into a textual document.
Use optimized dpi (max. 200 dpi) with an optimized physical size, and 256 color depth .png files (or optimized .jpg files)
Last edited by Zizi64 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Here is your sample document with optimized pictures:

David's Easiest Bacon-optimized_pics.odt
(76.67 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Hagar Delest » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:43 pm

emf format is a real nightmare. Even in MS Word, pics are sometimes stored in this format. I guess it comes from a selection with several items grouped and then pasted in MS Word. I often have to check files from colleagues and clean the OOXML content by converting the emf files and reinserting them.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Bill » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:17 pm

I just noticed another problem with the emf files. OpenOffice creates a graphic and a hidden draw object for each emf file. If the page format is changed, the hidden draw objects become unhidden and are placed at the beginning of the document, moving the graphics. This basically means that even if a template is used to change the page size, each document will have to be opened anyway to delete the draw objects.

This is a case where using LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice makes more sense. The Document Converter in LO doesn't create the hidden draw objects and keeps the correct page size after the conversion so no extra work is required to repair the documents after the conversion.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:49 am

Zizi64 wrote:Here is your sample document with optimized pictures:

David's Easiest Bacon-optimized_pics.odt


WOW!!! 77KB from 99MB!!!

Zizi64 wrote:50 MiB file size for a 3.48 x 1.91 cm physical size picture?? It is a nonsense...

Do not use Microsoft related image types, like the .bmp and the .wmf. Optimize your pictures before you insert them into a textual document.
Use optimized dpi (max. 200 dpi) with an optimized physical size, and 256 color depth .png files (or optimized .jpg files)


I use a free version of Corel PaintShop Pro. I open the picture file and copy the portion I want in the recipe file. Then I paste the copied section into the recipe file, and save it. It is quick & dirty (mostly dirty), I realize. The pictures on the recipes I consider worthy of keeping are pictures I take with my own camera (Canon 16 mp SureShot, or something like that) or with my Samsung Galaxy S8+. I download them to my pc, open then in PaintShop Pro, save them as .jpg files, and copy the portion of the pic I want in my recipe file. I will start optimizing them to 200 DPI (I had learned that "photo ready artwork was supposed to be 1200 DPI, IIRC), and color depth of only 256 shades (rather than the default 1 million.

I just took a picture that was 3.xxx mb size .jpg, reduced the colors to 256 shades, and noted that it was already set for 180 dpi, & saved it. The size increased to 5.xxx mb! Not sure how THAT works!!!
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:51 am

Bill wrote:I just noticed another problem with the emf files. OpenOffice creates a graphic and a hidden draw object for each emf file. If the page format is changed, the hidden draw objects become unhidden and are placed at the beginning of the document, moving the graphics. This basically means that even if a template is used to change the page size, each document will have to be opened anyway to delete the draw objects.

This is a case where using LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice makes more sense. The Document Converter in LO doesn't create the hidden draw objects and keeps the correct page size after the conversion so no extra work is required to repair the documents after the conversion.


Well, THAT explains why I have a 2nd picture show up at the VERY BEGINNING of the page after I reformat the page size to fit my needed 5.5"x8.5"! I was afraid that deleting it would cause some kind of damage. Now I know that it won't. Thanks, Bill!!!
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:33 am

Then I paste the copied section into the recipe file,

Never paste pictures directly from a foreign source into an AOO/LO document. Save first the picture with the third party software into a .png or .jpg type file. Then use the regular way in AOO: Insert - picture (from a file)
Last edited by Zizi64 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:40 am

I use a free version of Corel PaintShop Pro.

I converted your pictures with the really free InfanView software.
You can crop the image by selecting a rectangle and Ctrl-Y); adjust the dpi value and the physical size in cm or inch (Image - Resize/Resample function); the color depth (Image - Decrease color depth function); the image compression ratio and the file type (File - Save as... function)
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Re: [Solved] Ineffective Templating

Postby DarkFlame » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:52 am

Ok, I will be more meticulous about how I get pictures into my files. That is good advice, especially for uploading to my eventual website (a food blog, yet another one, but different from all the others, but I digress).

So, if I change my normal template into the page size I want, I should have all my files in that page size, right?

Where is my normal.ott file stored? I have found one in the folder where I saved my recipes.ott file, but that is on a separate drive from where my operating system & programs are installed. I edited the template for the page size & saved it as normal.ott - but when I open a new file, it defaults to the 8.5x11 standard paper size & not the 5.5x8.5 size I have normal.ott set to be - & when I open it, or use it specifically, it shows as 5.5x8.5 size.

I am not feeling very comfortable about using this program if it is so very difficult to make it function as I expect it should function. Maybe my expectations are wrong - maybe the opening file size cannot be changed & I have to assign a template to it (be it normal.ott or recipes.ott - they are the same 5.5x8.5 page size). If this is true, I need to know before I go further.

I really don't mind redoing the handful of files that I have perfected (a small % of the 3,000 files I have entered in MS-Word.docx) - my typing is fast enough (70-120 wpm) that it is not a terrible bother, and I can cut & paste. BUT, I need to get the template working effectively so I am not so affected by it.

Thanks,
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Re: [Solved] Ineffective Templating

Postby Zizi64 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:22 am

So, if I change my normal template into the page size I want, I should have all my files in that page size, right?

Absolutely not. Changing the default template will change the properties of the new files what you will create in the future. The page settings are stored in all of the existing files. You must adjust the page properties in all of your older files - manually or by a macro or by any extension.


Where is my normal.ott file stored?

There is not any normal.ott file either in the AOO program directories nor in the user profile. The "normal.dot" is a Microsoft related solution.
Please read ALL of posts in this thread:
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/v ... hp?t=21690
and then follow the istructions described in this thread:
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/v ... =71&t=1161
Tibor Kovacs, Hungary; LO4.4.7, LO6.1.5 on Win7-10 x64Prof.
PortableApps, winPenPack: LO3.3.0-6.2.0 and AOO4.1.5
Please, edit the initial post in the topic: add the word [Solved] at the beginning of the subject line - if your problem has been solved.
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Zizi64
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