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Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:34 pm
by makxl5
Hi all,

Novice user trying to develop a medical charting system for my son's illness and I'm struggling - too many learning curves.

I select two fields, select "Insert Chart", select "Pie", select "3d", resize chart and click outside and the chart deselects to a very small size. I have no idea how to fix it. Searching the forum hasn't yet yielded a solution. Thanks for any help.

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:35 pm
by FJCC
If you start with a new document, enter some dummy data and create a 3D pie chart, do you see the same problem? If so, please post that document. To upload a document, click Post Reply and look for the Upload Attachment tab just below the box where you type a response.
If you can upload the original document, that would be very helpful but I assume it has a lot of confidential information that should not be posted on a public forum.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:07 pm
by makxl5
Thanks FJCC - Open Office is acting up. Opening a new spreadsheet, I find the new window only appears as a thin bar at the left of my screen. When I click to drag it into the screen, it ghosts. The mini window of it shows up on my menu bar but when I hover over it, I get the "god rays" over my desktop background screen - with the thin bar on the left side of the screen. This happened the first time this morning - I uninstalled OO, reinstalled and it cleared up, but now it's back.

I'll keep trying to create the dummy spreadsheet, set it up and see if I can recreate the chart snag.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:26 pm
by makxl5
1st attempt. Let me know if it needs more data.

thanks again,

Mike

Chart_Issue_deselectstosmall.ods
(45 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:41 pm
by makxl5
Also, I tried changing chart types - bar and column don't act the same way - they remain the same size as the "chart edit" selection window.

Additionally, I opened the file I uploaded and it only opened in read only mode.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:13 pm
by Zizi64
Additionally, I opened the file I uploaded and it only opened in read only mode.

Always download the attached documents first, and then try to open them. The directly opened attachments of the WEB sites and E-mails will be opened as read only.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:15 pm
by makxl5
that works - thanks!

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:47 pm
by FJCC
The chart is certainly strange. I notice that the data range includes negative numbers, which don't really make sense for a pie chart. In any case, if I double click on the chart to get it into edit mode and then right click on a white area of the chart frame, I can select Position and Size. I see negative positions for x and y, which don't make sense because they are measured from the upper left corner, and the Width and Height are tiny, 0.01 cm. I reset the width and height to 16 cm and 9 cm (about 6 in by 3.5 in) and then the plot was fine.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:59 pm
by makxl5
When I double click>right click>position and size - the numbers seem right - 6.29 x 3.45 or thereabouts. But deselecting the chart still results in a tiny image. Negative numbers are being used so I have a visual reference for his water balance - intake is blue, output is red and so I want a visual tip if he's low on water versus output. It's virtually life and death for his sodium to rise or fall too fast and water balance is everything. Not sure if that made sense - I haven't thought of a more stable yet visual way of tracking this important data set.

I did discover that changing the chart type to bar or column does not produce this glitch.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:27 am
by FJCC
I added a column for category labels, using column L, and that caused the chart to expand to a reasonable size. To do that, I double clicked on the chart then right clicked and selected Data Ranges. On the Data Ranges tab, I expanded the range to include column L. You can see this in the attached file. I also included a column chart, which explicitly shows which numbers are positive and negative. Personally, I find that a better way to plot such data but you should certainly use whatever works best for you.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:50 am
by makxl5
Adding Column L to my chart seems to have had the same effect. And thanks for the file - it helped. Before I call this solved, I'll add the column to each day/sheet and see if the fix propagates. I have so much data to enter and track, I'm in nosebleed territory as to how to optimize it for either quick reference or into something someone else can use (his doctors). Any pointers in that direction would be greatly appreciated as well.

Again, thanks FJCC and best wishes,

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:09 am
by jrkrideau
FJCC wrote:I also included a column chart, which explicitly shows which numbers are positive and negative. Personally, I find that a better way to plot such data but you should certainly use whatever works best for you.


I don't see the bar chart (well column chart in spreadsheet terms) but I did a quick conversion of the pie chart to the column chart and it seems to give a much better picture of what I would assume the numbers mean. Unless I am completely misunderstanding the nature of the data, the pie chart is completely meaningless nonsense.

Spreadsheet programs allow one to plot negative numbers[1] but conceptually the chart is nonsense. It has no meaning.

1. We are lucky they do not allow division by zero!

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:41 am
by makxl5
:) / by zero'd be a whole nother mess. Conceptually, the pie chart allows me to visually track if he's matched input with output. The pie reaches equal parts when in=out. With bars/columns, I have to quantify the visual difference mentally, if that makes sense. Data includes volume of water he's taken in, volume he's voided and any carry-over from the night before - sometimes he's slightly ahead, sometimes behind. His sodium level is critically dependent on keeping those volumes in balance otherwise his sodium climbs/falls and his brain function degrades alarmingly. Happens quickly and the effects are distressing to say the least. I'm a visual learner so the charts can hold volumes of critical data at a glance. Do you know of a way to populate line charts with data across several sheets? I tried, but the data didn't appear in the line chart on sheet 1. I've got sheets for each day of the week with 20 or so rows and data across 9 columns. It's a lot of tracking and it would help to be able to observe trends.

thanks again for your help - it means a lot.

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:56 pm
by John_Ha
makxl5 wrote: I'm struggling - too many learning curves.

You will find much useful information in the User Guides, the Writer, Base and Calc Tutorials and the AOO Frequently Asked Questions. May I suggest you bookmark the pages.

May I suggest you read some of them especially the several Tutorials about charts and Chapter 3 - Creating Charts and Graphs in the Calc Guide.

Showing that a problem has been solved helps others searching so, if your problem is now solved, please view your first post in this thread and click the Edit button (top right in the post) and add [Solved] in front of the subject.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:19 pm
by jrkrideau
Ah, I see what you are doing now. It makes sense but violates the concept of a pie-chart. I seldom use Calc to make charts or graphs so I cannot suggest how to use data series from different sheets but I am sure someone here can help. I agree with the visual learning. It is so much easier to understand when it is a chart or graph.

I would suggest that the line chart might be a better bet;, perhaps, you do not want to graph the amounts of input or output so much as you want to graph the difference?

Perhaps a simple equation by date would give you some useful information?
Water intake + water retained - water voided = Result ?

See attached chart.

But, as FJCC says, "You should certainly use whatever works best for you".

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:23 pm
by makxl5
Thank you John_Ha for the links and how to participate - being new here. I have a lot to learn.

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:34 pm
by makxl5
jrkrideau wrote:
See attached chart.



Thanks for that jrk - Bar Charting the difference over days would help. I'm trying to figure out how to extract data from each of 7 sheets to appear on progressive sheets - a running total - and a bar chart would work. If I can get data from the previous sheets. The pie chart only works to show me, during the day, when he approaches a zero balance - and it doesn't work very well, at that.

Do you know how to pull data from previous sheets so it appears on the day's working sheet? Or if there's a better way?

And thanks again - it really helps.

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:46 pm
by jrkrideau
As I said in my earlier post, I don't use Calc to graph/chart much. At the moment I have no idea how to get data from seven sheets though it should not all that difficult for a Calc expert. ANYONE?

To be honest, I don't like the sound of seven sheets as a way to lay out your data. Often the most logical way for a human ) is not the best way to lay out the data for a computer to use. (I assume you are human and not a reptile infiltrator from the planet #%#$tg)

Would you be able to upload a sample Calc file for us to have a look at? We might be able to suggest some different approaches that might make life easier for you. But we really would need the seven sheets.

We need a file that gives us the layout of the various sheets in the spreadsheet. We don't need the actual data, so if you want to just toss in some nonsense numbers, it should be fine.

Remember the forum only accepts uploads of 128K or less. If your sample file is larger than that, the best idea is to post it to a file hosting service such as Dropbox or MediaFire and post a download link here.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:29 am
by makxl5
dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/swrnnosu3my0f ... t.ods?dl=0

jrkrideau wrote: a reptile infiltrator


I knew the disguise was slipping...

Here's the file minus some of the data. I'm working to build something my son can use if I'm incapacitated (we're working on a lot of things right now - getting backup help is one of them.)

The green columns at the right hold lists of the medication he takes and when.

The Pie Charts - though being a work in progress, are still developing so they're not consistent. To be honest, I can read the tutorials, figure out how to build/use charts - but it's data management wizards I need help from. Organizing this into something my son can use (me first, though) is crucial to his ongoing recovery. But it has to be intuitive, consistent across the pages and comprehensive. 3 things I'm still sucking at. I wish I could set up alarms (rates/levels too high/low), room for detailed notes (tracking symptoms across hours/days/weeks, changes to meds/dosing times and things I can't even think of right now.

The hospitals and clinics are even actually overwhelmed. His illness overlaps into 6 or 7 distinct clinical areas - but here at home, we don't have the luxury of referring out. I get help online from a couple of his clinics but I have to have the information compiled or we have to travel 150 miles just to walk in the clinic door.

Sorry for the wall of text - knowing I have my eye on the ball has become hard to be sure of with so many things to watch at once - especially when they become fluid during a metabolic or neurologic crises like elevated sodium causes neurologic symptoms I need to watch for, etc. And don't get me started on the massive changes in diet necessary - most food has immense amounts of sodium and sugar and we have to read every single nutrient list on every single food and somehow make the information readily available so we don't have to look it all up every time.

"Nuther wall of text - sorry guys and gals, really tired at the moment. Hope the upload helps and thank all of you following the thread and especially those who've posted. Finally, John Ha, my sincere apologies. My disrespect says nothing about your desire to help and I'm sorry. Also, thank you for the links - I will use them all.

Best to all,

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:03 am
by robleyd
If you should need to, it is possible to edit your posts via the edit button at the top right of the post.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:21 pm
by jrkrideau
makxl5 wrote:
jrkrideau wrote: a reptile infiltrator


I knew the disguise was slipping...


A sighting notification has been sent to Daved Ickes at Repitile Tracking International.

I have download the file and have had a preliminary look at it. From my point of view, I think it can probably be improved but that does not mean that you would like it.

Anyway, I'll give it some thought—I am hopeful that some Calc gurus will also have some suggestions. Playing around with the data layout and reports that you want may take some time.

Best wishes for you and your son. Things sound very stressful for both of you.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:32 pm
by John_Ha

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:31 am
by makxl5


Thank you for the links John. I have found a medic-alert necklace USB Thumbdrive which now has a summary and some details loaded onto it. I began to use AOO for Android and ran into some data loss events which put me back onto the PC until I sort them out. I believe it's called AndrOpen. Of course, using the above database, the app can only be as good as the database but data loss (newly re-opened file contained none of the previously entered data) scared me off of it for now. I was teaching my son to use it and his memory and cognitive function deficits made the data loss twice the issue it otherwise would have been.

My goal is to build a daily tracking system he can use on his phone that is optimized for his needs. A tablet might be better - the AOO app on phone is a little harder to navigate so the db setup has to be clean and as thoroughly optimized as I can make it.

I'll look more deeply into the patient-tracking databases found in the links. I looked a few months ago but all I found were applications for use in clinics and not for patients. I'm sure this wheel has already been invented - it's just the communities we've been a part of the last year have all found my son's cancer to be rare in both the tumor itself and the myriad systemic effects on his body and personality. As a result, they're often like deer in the headlights - both disconcerting and hard to even think of all the questions needing answers.

Again, John, I apologize for an offensive post. I will not do that again.

And thank you for your graceful reply - you are a gentleman.

Best wishes,

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:10 pm
by John_Ha
makxl5

Thank you. We can all have bad days :super:

I pointed to the software because, in principle, it is better to use a well written program than to develop anything significant yourself. For example, it is an essential principle that a piece of data should be stored once, and only once, because if it is stored more than once it is virtually inevitable that the two values will get out of step. Similarly data should be protected from accidental change.

Doing what you are trying to do is probably best done in two steps:

1. Create a database into which the data is poured.
2. Create reports which analyse the data stored in the database.

Note how a program designed in this way completely separates the data from the reports. There is no way in which a report can corrupt or accidentally change the data. It is difficult to achieve that in a spreadsheet.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:16 pm
by jrkrideau
@ makx15

Hi Mike,

I have made some drastic changes in your data layout based on the idea that daily changes over a period of time may be of more importance than the single daily measurments—I think my approach can give you both as needed with some more fiddling. I have renamed many of the headings (variables in my lingo) for my convenience while tinkering with the spreadsheet. A return to the original names makes sense in terms of decent documentation.

The first thing you will likely notice is that I have transposed the data so that we have the various mesurements in colums and I am putting all the data in one sheet. This avoids having to deal with multiple sheets which are not really needed. However, it does make it more difficult to eyeball a day's treatment.

My basic idea at the moment is to have all the data on the **Data** sheet and carry out any charting or other summary work on **Analysis** sheet. At the moment my not-very-sophisticated approach to charting a bar chart involves manually copying the values for the date and deficit from **Data** to **Analysis** and charting the data. The chart currently look a bit strange as I only input 3 days worth of data into my spreadsheet.

This approach makes it easy to chart changes over longer times.

I, also have a number of questions and observations about the formatting of the spreadsheet but I once get thorough whinging and moaning about spreadsheets I'll send you a PM about some of my questions and suggestions.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:37 pm
by makxl5
[quote="John_Ha"]
1. Create a database into which the data is poured.
2. Create reports which analyse the data stored in the database.

Perfect place to start John - thank you. I used to build/use business databases and I forgot this principle (many things keeping me from thinking straight 1/2 the time)

Searching ggl for a home-use product is problematic in that after weeding out the ads, there are pages of products for use in hospitals and clinics. I believe I'm looking for Analytics, Scheduling, Event Logging, Reporting and Cross-Referencing. Being a little clearer on just what modules I need helps narrow down the search though at first blush, there doesn't seem to be much available for non-professional home nursing. I imagine the cost of these proprietary packages might keep us out of that market as well. But I have to find them before I'll know.

I am immensely grateful to you for this last post. Essentially starting from scratch isn't so bad if I'm actually getting back into familiar territory. You gave me a much better place to start from so again, my thanks.

Mike

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:00 am
by John_Ha
AOO's Base is pretty crude but, if you do decide to use it, see the LibreOffice Base Handbook (259 pages) and the LO Student's Book (71pages) as well as the AOO Database wiki.

Re: Chart default to very small size

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:03 am
by jrkrideau
If you have build data bases then junk Calc! A decent data base is 100 times better for this type of project.

In any case, I am shipping my (hopefully redundant) comments on the spreadsheet via a PM.

Best wishes.