[Solved] Libre v AOO

Issues with installing under all versions of MS Windows
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johnoo
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[Solved] Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

Using AOO, version 4.1.9
I'm only a casual user, just a few Write documents & Spreadsheet.
So what advantages/disadvantages would I get by moving to Libre Office?
Last edited by johnoo on Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Johnoo

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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Zizi64 »

Tibor Kovacs, Hungary; LO7.5.8 /Win7-10 x64Prof.
PortableApps/winPenPack: LO3.3.0-7.6.2;AOO4.1.14
Please, edit the initial post in the topic: add the word [Solved] at the beginning of the subject line - if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Villeroy »

Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Mountaineer »

I don't think, it is an important choice for a casual user. At most times there is no difference.

If you have to exchange documents with users of Microsoft-Office choose LibreOffice, as they put considerable effort in enhancing compatibility.
Some of the bewer files of MS can't be read by AOO at all.

If you are interested in signing documents using gpg-keys, i guess you also need to select Libre-Office.

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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Villeroy »

For me personally the point of no return was LO 5.3 which introduced pivot charts. This feature saves me doing a lot of manual work or writing complicated macro code. I can update pivot tables from various sources and the charts will follow automatically.
Among many questionable new features, every use may find this or that new feature that really makes a difference to his/her personal way of using the software.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

Ref. "Pivot Charts":-, is it not the same as using a Spread sheet in AOO & then selecting "Chart"?
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by sveld »

There are a lot of changes in many places, best to take a look at the release notes of the major versions and pick the things that may be relevant for you. Besides a lot of interoperability enhancements for OOXML (docx etc) there is also a lot of enhancements for ODF (odt, ods, etc), could even be you just like the tabbed menu's.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/7.1
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by RoryOF »

johnoo wrote:Ref. "Pivot Charts":-, is it not the same as using a Spread sheet in AOO & then selecting "Chart"?
A "Chart" in Calc is a graphical representation of the data, a "Pivot Chart" is a selection mechanism to select from the data entries according to the criteria the User specifies.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

Rory, Thanks, so "Pivots" are more sophisticated, but i don't think I need this
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Villeroy »

"Everybody" needs pivot tables without knowing it. It is one of the most important features helping to adjust overstretched user expectations to the software.
"Everybody" mis-uses spreadsheets as poor man's database whereas spreadsheets have are not well prepared to cover this anticipation.
And then "Everybody" registers to this forum to ask questions about how to get information out of data which can be extremely challenging depending on how exactly you mis-used the program.
Introducing the data pilot (old OOo term for "pivot table")
Many requests for software support are caused by complicated formulas and solutions to simple day to day procedures. For more efficient and effective solutions, use the DataPilot, a tool for combining, comparing, and analyzing large amounts of data easily. By using the DataPilot, you can view different summaries of the source data, display the details of areas of interest, and create reports, whether you are a beginner or an intermediate or advanced user.
It is an absolute beginner's feature if the beginner is willing to store data in simple structures ("normalized lists") rather than cross-tables.
For me the best thing about pivot tables is that they allow me to create very quick an easy reports from real database data.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Hagar Delest »

In Writer, LO management of styles is more robust than AOO: when there are character styles, applying the default formatting will not remove the character style, and it will keep the hyperlinks. This is a real issue when you copy text with links (to Internet or to network places) and want to apply the default formatting.
The LO start center is quite good also. I first thought that all these document previews were of poor use and actually, much easier than the recent document list! And you can remove a document from the start center if needed.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

From the OP.
Perhaps another important point, will AOO just die & then I will have to convert to LO
Any ideas?
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Hagar Delest
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Hagar Delest »

I don't really think AOO will die. But no major change will happen neither.
Try the portable version of LO and see what is the one that meets the most of your requirements.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Mountaineer »

I switched to LibreOffice just for a small bit of convenience:
I had to analyze an archive of old files and needed more than 3 columns as criteria to sort - and 3 was all I got in AOO. So I switched and never came back.

But I guess, there is no need to rush things,
if you like to stay at AOO, as LO can read this files.

But you should not use both at tge same time,
as LO uses some newer parts of open-documents,
not understood by AOO. I expect some trouble here in
the next month. (There even now is a LO problem, where Forms can't be changed in Base...)

J.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by John_Ha »

In my opinion LO has better compatibility with Microsoft files. LO Writer supports more features in .docx files than AOO does including textboxes and rsid tags (used when documents are merged); and LO writes .docx files. LO Calc supports the maximum Excel column number.

The divergence will inevitably become greater with time. See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files for a description of differences.

The main reasons I switched to LO after 20 years with OOo and AOO were, in no particular order
  • LO seems to have fixed the "my document is full of ####" bug as I don't see LO users reporting it.
    I am 99.99% certain AOO does not properly handle the OS interrupt saying "I am shutting down / going to sleep". I do not think AOO delays the shutdown until AOO has written the user file. Instead, AOO allows the OS to terminate AOO before the user's file has been written, causing the corrupted file and, presumably, corrupted user profiles. This mishandling has now reproduced by development and the code is being repaired. Issue 126869 - Analysis Task: Lost/Corrupted Documents after Save/Shutdown
  • LO has fixed the bug causing Format error in sub-document ... when a user deletes a? comment (two? comments, each) attached to a range of text. I submitted an AOO bug report for it with a simple, stripped down test file which gives a 100% reproduceable fault. I had to persuade someone to raise the severity as it causes complete data loss. This has now been fixed and will be in the next release. Issue 127745 - Read Error: Format error discovered ... at n,nnnn (row,col)
Both these bugs cause complete data loss.
  • LO presumably now has much better support of images with the extensive recoding done so image loss should be much less frequent. See 16. Lost images ... and a word of caution about using AutoRecovery. LibreOffice 6.1 may now be better than AOO in [Tutorial] Some useful hints on using images.
  • LO has better support of docx file formats, including (the non-OOXML standard) MS Textbox and support for the later MS file versions.
    AOO silently ignores textboxes and does not display them or their contents. My plea for an enhancement to AOO saying "This file has XML tags I do not recognise so content may be missing" fell on deaf ears.
  • LO Calc supports the larger MS Excel row/column counts
  • LO supports MS rsid tags which arise when MS Word users merge documents from different sources
  • LO has many, many more developers, even if I may not always agree with what they are doing - I think function is prioritised over reliability and testing seems pretty bad. AOO has very few/almost no developers and will gradually become less reliable as the OS environment round it changes while AOO essentially remains frozen. Critical AOO bugs just don't seem to get fixed any more.
LO 6.4.4.2, Windows 10 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by robleyd »

On the gripping hand, if your needs from AOO are simple and it meets them now then it may be that AOO will continue to serve you until a new version of Windows potentially breaks things irretrievably.

Perhaps try LO and see if you can work with it.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

robleyd wrote:On the gripping hand, if your needs from AOO are simple and it meets them now then it may be that AOO will continue to serve you until a new version of Windows potentially breaks things irretrievably.

Perhaps try LO and see if you can work with it.
This comment from Robleyd regarding "A new version of Windows could break things"
I'm using Windows 10 version 20H2 Installed December 2020
Whilst i understand many of the advantages of LO I'm only a casual user & have found nothing wrong with AOO

I would like advise ref the comment that Rob has made please as this could change my thinking.
Thanks
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by RoryOF »

Neils Bohr once said "Prediction is very difficult, especially when it is about the future"; robleyd possibly had in mind a complete version change of Windows - from Win 10 to Win 11(?), but it is equally possible that minor revision of Win 10 could break _any_ program. It is your decision what to do.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

RoryOF wrote:Neils Bohr once said "Prediction is very difficult, especially when it is about the future"; robleyd possibly had in mind a complete version change of Windows - from Win 10 to Win 11(?), but it is equally possible that minor revision of Win 10 could break _any_ program. It is your decision what to do.
Rory, I'm aware that it is my decision, but does anybody have knowledge of a complete version change of Windows please?
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by robleyd »

My name is not Rob, if you would be so kind. And may I introduce you to the expression tongue in cheek
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by RoryOF »

johnoo wrote: Rory, I'm aware that it is my decision, but does anybody have knowledge of a complete version change of Windows please?
I can't answer your question, other than to say that 12+ years ago I tired of Window's new versions and moved to linux, a decision I have never regretted. This has also given old hardware a new lease of life (this machine is vintage 2009).
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

robleyd wrote:My name is not Rob, if you would be so kind. And may I introduce you to the expression tongue in cheek
Sorry about the name, but "Tongue in Cheek" means flippant & insincere!
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by Hagar Delest »

Well, the message is that Windows might introduce changes that would break things and that AOO would not have enough resource to cope with the changes.
It has happened recently with Mac OS that lead to code updates in LO and AOO I think.

In any case, as long as you use ODF to save your documents, you are safe because it is the core aspect. Both LO and AOO will be compatible with ODF.

So, if it ain't broken don't fix it. Stick to AOO and consider LO only if you need features that are available in LO only. But if you don't feel such need, then that's because it is very likely AOO is already the best tool for you.
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Re: Libre v AOO

Post by johnoo »

Hagar Delest wrote:Well, the message is that Windows might introduce changes that would break things and that AOO would not have enough resource to cope with the changes.
It has happened recently with Mac OS that lead to code updates in LO and AOO I think.

In any case, as long as you use ODF to save your documents, you are safe because it is the core aspect. Both LO and AOO will be compatible with ODF.

So, if it ain't broken don't fix it. Stick to AOO and consider LO only if you need features that are available in LO only. But if you don't feel such need, then that's because it is very likely AOO is already the best tool for you.
Well thanks to you all for all of the interesting & varied comments/advise.
Hager has sold it to me!
I'm going to stick with AOO
All my work is saved in odb/ods/odt/odg formats so I I need to convert later to LO there should be little problem.
But as I've said I'm only a casual user & have never found a major problem with AOO.
Just hope this thread has aided others.
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Johnoo

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Re: [Solved] Libre v AOO

Post by Villeroy »

The Open Document Format (odt, ods, odt etc) was developed, introduced and standardized with the intention to be as simple as possible and as complex as necessary so any team of developers could write some piece of software to implement parts of it. There are dozends of applications able to read or even write ODF text, spreadsheets or presentations. One of them is MS Office, by the way. The total absence of hidden secrets and patents with a file format that was intended to be opened with more than one distinct application was the most important threat towards Microsoft Office.
OpenOffice and Star Office where the fitst reference implementations which means that these applications demonstrated each and every aspect of these file formats. In 2011 OpenOffice started to dissolve and LibreOffice was forked from OpenOffice as its direct successor. AOO 3.3 and LO 3.3 where almost identical except for the blue/green branding. LibreOffice is the new ODF reference implementation. It opens ODF documents just as well as OpenOffice. Both applications can be installed side by side on the same system.
Please, edit this topic's initial post and add "[Solved]" to the subject line if your problem has been solved.
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