[Issue] Grouping command erase details in drawing

[Per-Olof]

When I try to group a whole drawing, or a part of it, disappere some certain details[/b] in the drawing (lines, text, figures, drawings . Obviously it's impossible to do any group command at all because I can never be sure that every detail is still there. The only thing to do is to do UNDO! Than all the detail comes back. I just wonder why!(?)
( I had earlier version 4.1.2 but it is exactly the same problem in version 4.1.3!!)
Or is there any reasonable explanation? /Per-Olof

[keme]

Is there a sample file you can upload here which displays the behavior?

Also, please explain your steps explicitly. List, in sequence, all menu items and/or keyboard shortcuts you are using to select items for grouping and to establish the group. At which step does detail disappear?

[Per-Olof]

New answer:
Hello! Yes of course I have some drawings, at least one whera I found the trouble. But I don't really understand how to show it to you. Can you tell me how to attach/upload my files?
Per-Olof

Edit:

When I try to attach the files the systmem says 'drawing i too big' I have obviously to pick out only that single drawing in any way. I come back later!

3.Figur.17.single.odg

Here is the file before the groupe command was given.

(17.08 KiB) Downloaded 284 times

3.Figur.17.single.error.odg

Here is the file where the error occure after that the groupe command was given.

(16.7 KiB) Downloaded 270 times

I understood that all the drawings in that file couldn't be attaced!
I did a single drawing of one side and grouped that.
Above is those two files. You can easily see the differences.
[I did a square around all the writings, (look in file ' .single.odg' ) without the text upward. Than I gave the 'groupe' command with 'right click' (or curtain) and the detail dissappered in both manner.(look in file ' .single.error.odg')]
Per-Olof

[FJCC]

After you click the PostReply button you can find an Upload Attachment tab just below the box where you type a response. The file size is limited to 128KB.

[acknak]

The parts that disappear are on the "Controls" layer. Move them to one of the other layers and it should be ok.

I don't understand why Draw works this way; I usually avoid the Controls and Dimension line layers.

[Per-Olof]

Thank you acknak! Interesting observation! I have never thought/understand about the meaning with those layers. So you mean that I always ought to work in any of the other layers not to miss something. It's a pity if I don't realise that I have lost something before I print it out. Do you think that this could be something to change in a later revision? Or is it urgent to have it like that for any reason? Perhapes I get some answer later on about that, from the other helpers.

[acknak]

Sorry, I don't really know the answer to that. The purpose of those layers is a mystery to me and so I avoid using them for anything.

I can tell they're on that layer by Shift+click on the "Controls" layer: this toggles the visibility of the layer and the objects will disappear and reappear.

It's easy to move everything to the "Layout" layer: select all, click on the selection, hold for a second or two, then drag and drop on the "Layout" tab.

If there are some parts you want to handle separately, I suggest creating a new layer, then moving the objects to it (drag/drop as above, or use cut/paste).

[keme]

There are 3 predefined layers which you can't remove or rename. You can add more layers as needed.

Most drawing elements will be placed on the currently selected layer. There are a few exceptions, which the "odd" predefined layers are there for:

• Layout - preselected default layer. This is the layer you will normally work in. Nothing special with this layer, other than that the name is locked (can't be renamed).
  Controls - Interactive elements (form controls) will be placed on this layer, regardless which layer is selected.
  Dimension lines - Dimension lines (element from the Arrows toolbox) will be placed on this layer, regardless which layer is selected.

This makes it easy to quickly hide/show certain types of element, and otherwise handle them as a group. May be useful when you know how it works. Most of the time, like in this case, the automatic behavior as described just leads to confusion and annoyance.

[Per-Olof]

Thank you both! I really don't exactly understand all but I think I understand how to avoid the problem with lost elements. I will tell you that I realised that my whole drawing was exactly the same in the three layers. And I had to write in those lost details in the Layout layer, than it worked with the groupe command. I don't, for now, need other than all my design in one sheet so I think I will manage to use the equipment. But I am a little confused about that my figures was exactly the same in all the three layers and the groupe command erased exactly the same in all those three layers. (!?) My suggestions is that I only ought to see those dimension lines in D.L. layer and if I want to include those lines in my drawing I had to go to D.L. layer when printing it out!(?) Any erasing whatsoever, when grouping, is not desirable!
I will also say that i am impressed that this free program is so qualified, I think I can do most of what I will do. Thank you for your advise!

[keme]

Normally you will see everything on your drawing, from all layers, at the same time. Selecting a different layer makes no changes to the drawing you see on screen. Selection of layer only governs which layer new drawing elements will be placed on on.

The notion of layers is a bit misleading, because which layer an object is on does not have any bearing on where it is in the "stacking order". IOW, to bring an object to front or put it behind another you do not use the layers. The Modify - Arrange menu items, with corresponding tool icons, are used for that.

Think of the layers more as classes, and use them for classification. In complex schematics I sometimes use separate layers for command/control signals and for material/data flow, and perhaps for detail levels. This makes it easy to show/hide content in a presentation.

A quick way to find out what is on which layer is to hide the layer. Shift-click the layer tab to toggle visibility. More options are available from the layer tab's context menu (right click).

To move an object from one layer to another you can use the "alternate drag":
click and hold the item until the mouse pointer changes to a "box pointer" (should change after about half a second). Then drag and drop on the preferred layer tab.
Regardless of which layer is active, you can select objects from any layer (unless layer is locked). When I need to move things to a different layer I usually just have the target layer active, select the objects to move from other layers, then cut and paste (ctrl-X, ctrl-V).

[Per-Olof]

Thank you Keme! I will study what you say later on. There is obviously a lot to learn about that. But I still think that all I can see in any layer ought to be included in what I define at the groupe command. Otherwise I can lost something important without apprehending that. (Perhapes I will understand better later on.)

[acknak]

My GUESS is that the controls (widgets) that live on the "Controls" layer are not drawing objects. My guess is that they can't be grouped or selected along with drawing objects, and OO Draw handles them (and the Controls layer) differently because of this.

Maybe it would make sense for OO Draw to prohibit objects from being placed on the Controls layer? I can't say because I don't know how the controls are intended to be used. I suppose it could be useful to develop electronic forms or something like that.

I went ahead and submitted a bug report, here:
Issue 127356: drawing objects on "Controls" layer are not rendered or exported when grouped with objects on a different layer
You can register there and add your vote (up to two) or comment.

[keme]

...
Maybe it would make sense for OO Draw to prohibit objects from being placed on the Controls layer? ...

You can lock the controls layer to prevent objects from accidentally being put on that layer. This will also disable drawing of form control objects.

[Per-Olof]

Ok! In future I will use the Layout layer only. If something happens with groupe command, according to the acknak report I will have an eye on that. Thanks!