[Solved] Question about Libre document

[ss11]

New here, not sure if this is where I'm supposed to post this, but here's the issue:

I am going to send a document to a recipient and need to know for certain about a couple of things:

When I save a .doc in Libre, it shows as MS 97/2000/2003/XP

If the recipient is using MS Word/Win 10 - will they be able to open and read the document?

I understand that those versions above of MS are NOT compatible with Win 10.

My version of Libre is 3.5 and I know there's an upgrade to 5.2 but I've not upgraded due to fear of losing documents that I've drafted using this version.

Can someone advise me about this?

I just need to insure that the recipients can open the document with no problems.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[floris v]

You can safely get the most recent version of Libre, there are no changes in the file format, you won't lose your files.
It's safest to save in the old .doc format, that has the best conversion filters.

[acknak]

Best practice is to send ...

a pdf if the document is meant to be read and the formatting is at all important

a .doc (MS Word 97/2000/2003/XP) if the document must be opened and edited by others not using OO

If you need to do round-trip editing, it's best to have the same software on both ends.

It's safest to store your work in OO's native ODF file format. You can always save an extra copy in other formats as needed and your work will still be safe in the ODF file.

[John_Ha]

See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files.

You can safely upgrade LO - indeed you should upgrade - as the files you have written or saved are not affected by the upgrade. All older files are 100% compatible with the upgrade.

When I save a .doc in Libre, it shows as MS 97/2000/2003/XP ... I understand that those versions above of MS are NOT compatible with Win 10.

You are confusing file formats, like .doc, which work in all future releases of the program (as I said in my comment that you should upgrade LO); with the program itself, like MS Word, where older versions of the program may not work (actually, they often do work - it is just that they are not supported by the manufacturer) on later versions of Windows.

[ss11]

You can safely get the most recent version of Libre, there are no changes in the file format, you won't lose your files.
It's safest to save in the old .doc format, that has the best conversion filters.

Thank you for replying.

I thought I had read that upgrading can cause some issues with retrieving older documents, but if that is not the case then I think I will get the new version.

[ss11]

Best practice is to send ...

a pdf if the document is meant to be read and the formatting is at all important

a .doc (MS Word 97/2000/2003/XP) if the document must be opened and edited by others not using OO

If you need to do round-trip editing, it's best to have the same software on both ends.

It's safest to store your work in OO's native ODF file format. You can always save an extra copy in other formats as needed and your work will still be safe in the ODF file.

Thanks for replying.

So are you saying that the formatting would be fully preserved in PDF, but maybe not in .doc?

I DO want to make sure that when they read the document it's formatted exactly as I drafted it - so I need to clarify this.

Let me explain exactly what I'm trying to do:

1) I need to send documentation to a recipient who uses Win 10 and I know they can open a PDF - but I need to confirm if Win 10/Word users can open Libre documents - in case I decide to send as a .doc rather than PDF.

2) Next, I need to insure that they cannot alter/modify the content in any way (definitely not round-trip editing).

My concern about sending as a PDF is that when I export this document to PDF and then open it, all the editing features are there - which makes me think they will be able to modify the content. Is that correct that they could modify it?

Is there a way to protect a PDF from being modified? I believe you can protect a Libre .doc by going to File/Properties/Security and selecting: "Open file read only" - correct?

[ss11]

See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files.

You can safely upgrade LO - indeed you should upgrade - as the files you have written or saved are not affected by the upgrade. All older files are 100% compatible with the upgrade.

When I save a .doc in Libre, it shows as MS 97/2000/2003/XP ... I understand that those versions above of MS are NOT compatible with Win 10.

You are confusing file formats, like .doc, which work in all future releases of the program (as I said in my comment that you should upgrade LO); with the program itself, like MS Word, where older versions of the program may not work (actually, they often do work - it is just that they are not supported by the manufacturer) on later versions of Windows.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I think I will upgrade if there is no chance of the content of older documents being compromised. Just had to be sure about that before upgrading.

Per your comment about format vs. program:

I read on the MS website that versions 97, XP, 2000, and 2003 of Word are NOT compatible with Windows 10.

When I save a Libre document those four versions are the .doc options in the drop-down box - and the document saves just fine.

But per that information on the MS website, if you send any of those versions of Word to a Win 10 user, they will NOT be compatible . . . so that leads me to think that my Libre document will not be compatible, either.

Does that clarify what I'm trying to confirm?

[floris v]

I suppose that means that you cannot install and run those old versions of MS Word in Windows 10, but you should still be able to open files made with them or saved in that format.

[ss11]

I suppose that means that you cannot install and run those old versions of MS Word in Windows 10, but you should still be able to open files made with them or saved in that format.

Thank you, but there seems to be confusion about this around the internet, as some report they can open these specific versions of Word and yet others are experiencing a range of problems.

So, I'm still not sure if the recipients of my documentation will be able to open a Libre .doc in Windows 10.

Curious: did you mark this thread resolved? Because I asked another poster a couple of more specific questions about this issue, and have not yet received a reply, so will this thread continue to remain active?

I am just trying to get confirmation about the best way to send this documentation so that it can be opened without any formatting changes AND that the recipient cannot modify the document in any way.

Thanks.

[musikai]

I am just trying to get confirmation about the best way to send this documentation so that it can be opened without any formatting changes AND that the recipient cannot modify the document in any way.

Thanks.

The best format for this is PDF.

[acknak]

So are you saying that the formatting would be fully preserved in PDF, but maybe not in .doc?

Yes

My concern about sending as a PDF is that ... they will be able to modify the content. Is that correct that they could modify it?

No, not directly.

Anytime you send content to someone the door is open for them to do whatever they want with it. It is possible to open/edit a pdf but not without some effort.

OO also supports adding a password on the pdf, so you can make it even harder to modify if you want.

[Villeroy]

PDF is a print-out to a file. It displays whatever would be printed on paper sheets originating from whatever application. Any application which can feed a paper printer can also print to a PDF file. You can read PDF with dozends of PDF viewers on every device that can be seen as a computer. There are PDF viewers for phones, tablets, PCs, Macs. All these viewers can view PDF. Some of the viewers can attach notes to a PDF just like you can attach notes to a paper sheet. But they do not modify the print-out.

[John_Ha]

You are still confusing programs and files.

MS Word 95 wrote to a file format called .doc (95)
MS Word 6 wrote to a file format called .doc (Word 6)
MS Word 97, 2000, XP wrote to a file format called .doc (Word 97, 2000, XP)

The mantra is "Newer versions of programs can always open older versions of files ... until the older versions get so obsolete they are dropped.

Upgrading LO. Ask yourself "What files do I have which need to be opened by the upgraded LO?". Once you have a list of them, check to see if LO will open them. If your list is just .odt files, .doc files, .rtf files, .txt files and .docx files then the upgrade will open them. If you have very obsolete files like Lotus WordPro .lwp files, like old OpenOffice formats (.sxw??) then later versions of LO may not open them. If so, save them as .odt files with your current version and upgraded LO will be able to open them.

[ss11]

You are still confusing programs and files.

MS Word 95 wrote to a file format called .doc (95)
MS Word 6 wrote to a file format called .doc (Word 6)
MS Word 97, 2000, XP wrote to a file format called .doc (Word 97, 2000, XP)

The mantra is "Newer versions of programs can always open older versions of files ... until the older versions get so obsolete they are dropped.

Not arguing, but I don't know why you think I'm confusing programs and files. Am I not understanding what YOU mean by "confusing"? LOL

I am not confusing them . . . I understand what .doc means and I know what an OS is, lol.

But there are many discussions online about whether or not the older versions of Word are compatible with Win 10. Microsoft says they are NOT but might be if it's in compatibility mode. Others report not being able to open older Word documents in Windows 10.

So my question had to do with the fact that when I save a Libre document, the drop-down save option is Word 97/XP/2000/2003 which are shown to be not compatible and that's why I wondered if the recipient who has Win 10 might not be able to open my Libre document.

And from there, posters have said that PDF would be the best choice. I myself would prefer to send it via Libre .doc and use the "read only" protection feature to insure that they cannot modify it. But I still don't know if they will even be able to open the document or if the formatting might get messed up in the process.

Here's a clip from one such discussion to which I refer:

Which versions of Microsoft Office work on Windows 10?
The following versions of Microsoft Office with the latest Service Packs have been confirmed to be compatible with Windows 10:
Office 2016 Preview
Office 2013/Office 365
Office 2010
Office 2007
Older versions of Office such as Office 2003 and Office XP are not certified compatible with Windows 10 but might work using compatibility mode.

[robleyd]

Note that your clip refers to the program MS Office, not MS Office files. What format files those versions of Office will open is the question you need to pursue.

Edit: That is basically what florisv said above

[John_Ha]

Carefully read this post again. Then carefully read the tutorial it points you to as everything is covered there and in the links it provides.

A file format like .doc or .docx is a definition written on a piece of paper - 6,000 pages for .docx. A file format has nothing to do with any program and nothing to do with any operating system. Any program running on any operating system can be designed to write a file in any given file format.

But per that information on the MS website, if you send any of those versions of Word to a Win 10 user, they will NOT be compatible

I trust you now understand why that statement is incorrect. They will in principle be compatible but to be certain (older formats will eventually be dropped as they are obsolete) check to see what file formats the version of MS Word they are running will work with.

Any .doc or .docx file written by LO or AOO will open, with considerable success, but some failures, by recent versions of MS Word. Any .odt file written by AOO or LO will open, with considerable success, but some failures, by recent versions of MS Word. The tutorial explains why.

[ss11]

I am just trying to get confirmation about the best way to send this documentation so that it can be opened without any formatting changes AND that the recipient cannot modify the document in any way.

Thanks.

The best format for this is PDF.

Thanks for your feedback.

[ss11]

So are you saying that the formatting would be fully preserved in PDF, but maybe not in .doc?

Yes

My concern about sending as a PDF is that ... they will be able to modify the content. Is that correct that they could modify it?

No, not directly.

Anytime you send content to someone the door is open for them to do whatever they want with it. It is possible to open/edit a pdf but not without some effort.

OO also supports adding a password on the pdf, so you can make it even harder to modify if you want.

Thanks for confirming about the formatting being preserved.

Ok, if there's a way to password protect a PDF from editing, that's what I needed to know. I understand that any document can potentially be modified, I'm just trying to reduce that chance.

[ss11]

PDF is a print-out to a file. It displays whatever would be printed on paper sheets originating from whatever application. Any application which can feed a paper printer can also print to a PDF file. You can read PDF with dozends of PDF viewers on every device that can be seen as a computer. There are PDF viewers for phones, tablets, PCs, Macs. All these viewers can view PDF. Some of the viewers can attach notes to a PDF just like you can attach notes to a paper sheet. But they do not modify the print-out.

Thank you for that info.

[ss11]

Note that your clip refers to the program MS Office, not MS Office files. What format files those versions of Office will open is the question you need to pursue.

Edit: That is basically what florisv said above

Carefully read this post again. Then carefully read the tutorial it points you to as everything is covered there and in the links it provides.

A file format like .doc or .docx is a definition written on a piece of paper - 6,000 pages for .docx. A file format has nothing to do with any program and nothing to do with any operating system. Any program running on any operating system can be designed to write a file in any given file format.

But per that information on the MS website, if you send any of those versions of Word to a Win 10 user, they will NOT be compatible

I trust you now understand why that statement is incorrect. They will in principle be compatible but to be certain (older formats will eventually be dropped as they are obsolete) check to see what file formats the version of MS Word they are running will work with.

Any .doc or .docx file written by LO or AOO will open, with considerable success, but some failures, by recent versions of MS Word. Any .odt file written by AOO or LO will open, with considerable success, but some failures, by recent versions of MS Word. The tutorial explains why.

Thanks to you both. I do understand that MS Office is a program and .doc, etc. are file formats. I suppose I thought all the basic file formats (like .doc) are somehow formatted to 'match' (for lack of a better word) each version of MS Office programs. So when I read that clip that I referenced, my interpretation was that if someone created a .doc (which is basic) in any one of those particular versions of MS Office - they are not now compatible with Win 10 because they are older/obsolete, which I thought means they will not open. And so . . . since my Libre .doc was saved as 97/XP/2000/2003, then it would mean the recipient will NOT be able to open my document.

Perhaps my take on that is just too simplistic. I can appreciate the fact that you guys know all the technical aspects of OO, but I was just quite simply trying to find out if a Win 10 Word user can open a Libre .doc (saved as Word 97/XP/2003/2007). So I just needed a basic "yes" or "no" because I have to be absolutely certain that the recipient will be able to open the document and that it will be formatted as I have written it.

Also please note: Per the advice to save my documents as .odt (which is also referenced in the link that John_Ha provided me) I have made three attempts - and it crashes Libre every time. I save it as .odt, cannot access ANY Libre files, then I re-start pc, still can't access any Libre files. The only resolution was to delete the saved .odt file - and then I can access Libre.

So perhaps the upgrade will change that, but as for now, I cannot save files as .odt

As for the document I am trying to complete and send, I about decided to send it via PDF, but just determined that I cannot enable the 'protection from editing' feature because I don't have the paid version (not enough need to justify $). I do not really believe the recipient would attempt to modify or alter it, but felt it would be a good measure to try and prohibit such. Now, I've no idea what format to use.

[robleyd]

Print it and snail mail it? Then they'll have to use Tippex and a typewriter to modify it

[ss11]

Print it and snail mail it? Then they'll have to use Tippex and a typewriter to modify it

Well now, I do believe your post wins the award for most logical suggestion of all . . .

At the very least, it made laugh at the frustration of trying to figure this out!

[robleyd]

Seriously, it doesn't matter what format you save in, there will be some way of modifying it. Even if you use an image format (jpg, png etc). Just fire up Gimp or equivalent.

You need to determine what risk level you are prepared to accept.

[John_Ha]

File formats are defined first. Programs come second and are written to conform to the format definition.

As for the document I am trying to complete and send, I about decided to send it via PDF, but just determined that I cannot enable the 'protection from editing' feature because I don't have the paid version

File > Export as PDF > Security > Set Password.

Per the advice to save my documents as .odt ... I have made three attempts - and it crashes Libre every time. I save it as .odt, cannot access ANY Libre files, then I re-start pc, still can't access any Libre files. The only resolution was to delete the saved .odt file - and then I can access Libre.

You have something horribly wrong somewhere. It could be the file is corrupted, or has content (from MS Word?) which LO cannot place in the .odt file (as described in the tutorial), and LO cannot handle it and LO crashes. LO appears to prioritise function over stability (eg support writing .docx); AOO definitely prioritises stability over function (eg don't offer write support for .docx). Download, open, edit and save this .odt file.

my interpretation was that if someone created a .doc (which is basic) in any one of those particular versions of MS Office - they [the doc files] are not now compatible with Win 10 because they are older/obsolete, which I thought means they will not open.

No. Your interpretation is wrong because you are confusing the program with the file format. The fact they they both are given the same name is not helpful. "Word 97" on its own is meaningless. Does it mean the program called Word 97? Or does it mean the .doc file format called Word 97?

The old program may not run under W10 but the old .doc file format will open under W10 with any program which runs on W10 and which supports that particular file format.